Pope: Hell 'really exists'

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Pope: Hell ‘really exists’
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							VATICAN CITY, March 28 (UPI) -- 				  [Pope](http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/pope_hell_really_exists/20070328-063435-5183r/#) Benedict XVI says Hell -- despite being typically overlooked in today's society -- "really exists and is eternal."
The Catholic leader told an audience in Rome that while most people – including some believers – have forgotten about the penalties for their sins, they still risk eternal damnation in the fires of Hell, the Times of London reported.

Hell “really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more,” the pope said.

Vatican officials said the pope intended to reinforce the new Catholic catechism teaching that that Hell is a “state of eternal separation from God,” to be understood “symbolically rather than physically.”

more…
 
What is so extraordinary is that the pope should have to tell us hell exists at all! If our bishops and priests hadn’t talked a lot of pyschobabble in place of orthodox teaching for the last 40 years all Catholics would still believe in this most basic teaching.
 
Oh! The Pope ***is ***Catholic…now, I get that old joke. Can someone explain the bear in the woods though. That, I still don’t get. :confused: 😛
 
Nothing is more frustrating than the media and religion. They get it wrong time after time after time. This occurs in Catholic, Protestant, and Evanglical worlds. I also might add I think it happens as to Islam too.

I have watched as the media,so it can have a “fun Story” has totally got the Popes comments wrong on his Homily as to Hell. I have seen the most bizaree stuff. Here is a sampling
This Paper has a quote

quote:

“Hell really exists. It is the place where big fires burn and evil doers and deniers go and burn in the end.”
english.sabah.com.tr/72892E984CF343C985693B761AD69451.html

Hmmm, where the big fires burn?

I keep seeing this bantered about but
I find it interesting the is no quotes-

quote:

HELL is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, Pope Benedict XVI has said.
e-paper.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1572646.ece

What is interesting is this Guardian Post

quote:

“The 79-year old pontiff used a Mass in the gritty Fidene suburb of Rome to put damnation back on the agenda. “Jesus came to tell us everyone is wanted in paradise, and that hell, about which little gets said today, exists and is eternal for those who shut their hearts to his love,” Pope Benedict warned the congregation on Sunday.The talk of fire and brimstone stopped there, as Pope Benedict failed to elaborate on what lay ahead for the sinner in the afterlife, adding only that “our real enemy is the attachment to sin, which can bring about the failure of our existence”.
guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,2043457,00.html

What? Wait I just read some I just saw Paper that Pope said that is where the “where big fires burn”. What do you mean he stopped?

Last night I was able to locate the Holy Father’s Homily. Unfort it is in Itralian but if you got Google translate ine gets the gist
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20070325_visita-parrocchia_it.html

Here is a unoffical English translation(scroll down to the bottom to see whole Homily)

quote:

Dear friends, concrete indications for our life emerge from the word of God that we heard today. Jesus did not get into a theoretical discussion with His interlocutors. He was not interested in winning a dispute over the interpretation of Mosaic law. His objective was to save a soul and to reveal that salvation is only found in God’s love.
That is why He came to earth, why he would die on the Cross, and why the Father would resurrect Him on the third day. Jesus came to tell us that He wants us all in Paradise, and that Hell - of which very little is spoken these days - exists, and is eternal for those who close off their hearts to His love.
83.211.3.34/viewmessaggi.aspx?f=65482&idd=487&p=12

Wow so out that we have so many different accounts. Now is it possible that the Pope suddenally starting speaking off the Cuff in this PArish visit? Maybe. But it appears Newspapers are just widely quoting different accounts without checking some primary sources. Sort of a news media versiion of Telephone. To say the least it is not responsible and perhaps that is what irks me the most. I have no problem with the Pope saying “Where the Big Fires Burn” but the problem is it doesn’t appear he said it

It only gets worse. Many reports then attempt to go further into Christian and Catholic Theology.
 
The New York Post says

quote:

Vatican officials said that the Pope - who is also the Bishop of Rome - had been speaking in “straightfoward” language “like a parish priest.” He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that Hell is a “state of eternal separation from God,” to be understood “symbolically rather than physically.”
LINK

Well something didn’t ring true on this so I went to the Catechism
Nope, the Catechism never talks about Hell as being symbolic, but instead insists on the reality of Hell:

quote:

Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he “will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,” and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”

The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. (CCC 1034-36)
LINK

Now does the Church say as doctrine what Hell will be like down to the last detail? Does it say in Dogma what this eternal fire is or what it might mean? No not really but again the media is giving a distortion in attempt to create a story.

If it can’t get worse it does. John Paul the II views are misinterpreted. The Daily Mail in the UK pronounces
Even Benedict’s predecessor, Pope John Paul II, in every other way fearless in breaking taboos and conservative in his theological outlook, dwelt on hell just once in his 28 years in office. And then only to dismiss it.
Hell, he said, was a state of mind that arises when, by our sins, mankind has separated itself from God’s love. It therefore has no physical reality. He was effectively removing it from the Catholic Church’s map of the afterlife.
LINK ]
Good grief, what in the HELL are they talking about. Hell is trying to determine a Church’s theology from the AP and other news wires it seems. Pope John Paul II did not do that all. As we see witht he Catechism he that was produced under his watch as well as big Advocacy of devotions such as “Our Day of Fatima” and the “Divine Mercy”. All of which procliams Hellis very real. So where are they getting this form. Well they are getting iit froma serious of talks the Pope did in 1999 on HEaven, Hell, and Purgatory. What we Catholics call the “last things”
Here is the pertinent part

The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather* than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy. This is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes the truths of faith on this subject: “To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called ‘hell’” (n. 1033).
LINK
 
Note the more proper translation is “more than a Place” I really encourage people to read the whole link. Well out of this comes the clain that POPE is denying HELL.

Please, any well trained Catholic, Protestant, Evanglical, or Atheist Philospher or Theolgian will tell you that the Pope is carefully incorporating the terms of Meta Physics here. That is as Aquinas says

quote:

“Incorporeal things are not in place after a manner known and familiar to us, in which way we say that bodies are properly in place; but they are in place after a manner befitting spiritual substances, a manner that cannot be fully manifest to us.” [St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, Supplement, Q69, a1, reply 1]​

It gets frustrating how basic Christian theology contines to get misrepresented by the media. That goes for Cathlic, Orthodox, Reofrmed, Protestant , or Evanglical.

This is a small example of what happens daily

Saint for Mar 29 Mark, Bishop of Arethusa of Syria- 3 Days till Holy Week
 
I saw that article linked on the drudge report yesterday and just laughed. It’s NEWS that the Holy Father confirmed the existence of Hell?

And then I read it. And noted how utterly theologically confused the writer was.

From ZENIT, pretty much the only source we can completely trust on Vatican news:
Pope Says Sin Is True Enemy
Visits Parish of Diocese of Rome

ROME, MARCH 26, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Hell consists in closing oneself off from the love of God, and sin is the true enemy of the human person, Benedict XVI says.
The Pope made that comment on Sunday when celebrating Mass at the Parish of St. Felicity and Martyred Sons in the northern sector of the Diocese of Rome.
“If it is true that God is justice, then we should not forget that he is above all love; if he hates sin it is because he has an infinite love for all human beings,” the Holy Father explained.
The Pontiff reflected on the Gospel account of the day’s liturgy. It dealt with the adulterous woman who was to be stoned to death, but who was saved and forgiven by Jesus.

Benedict XVI stated: "Jesus does not start a theological debate about the law of Moses; he is not interested in winning an academic dispute on an interpretation of the Mosaic laws. His objective is to save a soul and reveal that salvation can be found only in the love of God.
"Jesus came to tell us that he wants us all in heaven and that hell, of which so little is said in our time, exists and is eternal for those who close their hearts to his love.
“Therefore even in this episode, we understand that our true enemy is our attachment to sin, which can lead us to failing our existence.”
Recalling that Jesus sent the adulterous woman away with the words, “go and sin no more,” the Pope explained, “Only God’s forgiveness and his love, received with an open and sincere heart, give us the strength to resist evil and to sin no more, to let us be touched by God’s love which becomes our strength.”
Benedict XVI concluded, “Jesus’ attitude thus becomes a model to be followed by all communities, called to make love and forgiveness the pulsating heart of their lives.”
To reduce what the Holy Father said to ‘hell is a place of unquenchable fire’ misses the point. If that’s how we as humans can understand hell, then so be it. But his larger point was that hell is eternal separation from God, and that separation, I believe, would be even more painful than the most hellish of eternal fires. Christ came to save us from hell, and through His grace alone can we escape it.
 
The Pope also spoke briefly about Hell the other week, when he visited a prison for juvenile offenders. His take then was that we all have free choice, and we can pick either the infinite freedom of God’s love, or everlasting imprisonment and lovelessness in Hell.

Curious that the media didn’t take much notice back then.
 
Vatican officials said the pope intended to reinforce the new Catholic catechism teaching that that Hell is a “state of eternal separation from God,” to be understood "symbolically rather than physically."
What does this mean? Can someone explain it? I had always thought Catholic theology taught Hell as a real physical place, not just a symbolic place.

Can anyone clarify this for me?

Thanks and God bless
 
Ok, the Pope spoke about Hell. Whats the big deal?
In the secualrist west to declare hell is real is scandelous and shocking . But yeah its not like no pope has ever said this before. Some people have misrepresented the teachings of Vatican II, John Paul 2 and Thomas Aquinas which does touch on the methapysical aspects of hell but nowhere says its symbolic but it does touch upon the a state of hell or the physicial reality of hell from what I understand hell as a physical reality does not exist yet until the resurection of the dead. Thus our body and soul composite does not experience the possible physical pains of hell until then. But there is a definite seperation from God in the state of hell one encounters now thus nothing symbolic about that.
 
Hell is trying to determine a Church’s theology from the AP and other news wires it seems.
:rotfl: :rotfl:

LOL!!! Oh, I know. They are so confused in representing it. When the news, and even fictional TV shows I watch, throw in Catholic information…it is always hopelessly garbled. To simplify it to one sentence, they often times mess it up bad. Then they are always throwing around common misconceptions like “the pope is bringing back indulgences, abolished long ago” or “the tridentine mass is an obscure form of worship based on the decrees of a 16th century commitee established by the Pope” or “It is current church discipline to ban women from the priesthood, just like married men are banned. But the exception for former Anglican clergy leaves some wondering if women won’t be next.” ARGGHHH!!!

I’ve actually tried to contact them, and am just told they are trying to present it in a “non-biased” way. Non-biased is telling the TRUTH about what the Church teaches!!! Not mixing in the opinions of idiots right along side the official teaching. If you want to give the “liberal” interpretation too…fine. But make it clear that it is not the official Church teaching.

But I get the same problem with my history books in school. The history books teach that, for example, “the Church taught that indulgences were a way that sinners could buy forgiveness of their sins”…I write to them that this is not what the Church taught, that it is a misconception, and they say, “but we have to present an even-handed account that takes into account the protestant view of history too”…so when teaching, as history, what the Church teaches, they do not just teach what the Church actually teaches, but must “balance” it with what other groups (mistakenly) CLAIM the Church teaches!!! Ugh…
 
The BIG DEAL here is that most young people, even Catholic youth, have no understand of the reality of Hell. It does not seem to be taught any longer.

If you are not afraid of punishment then why not do what “feels good”? In our NEW WORLD no one realizes that the decisions you make have consequences.

And YES HELL EXISTS.
 
it’s good he reminded us. as mentioned in a previous thread, we, esp. we Catholics should really be adamant at gaining eternal salvation and enjoy happiness of being with God forever. it’s sad that most people are shortsighted, and does not think of the future, heir end, the last things.
 
But didn’t Pope John Paul II state that Hell was the absenxe from God after your lfe on earth?
This was the leading argument of todays Bob Frantz Show.

Bob, a local radio talk show host had his show based on what Pope Benedict stated last week. What makes me sad is that two other members of the show are Catho,lic yet have views as if they were Protestants.

Here is the link to the Podcasts and you can listen to the show yourself. I came away really said that these people call themselves Catholic and still do no know their faith.

Podcast link WTAM Cleveland What you want to do is look for the broadcast of 4/3/07.
 
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