Pope John Paul II 'could not cure drooling, trembling woman during Vatican exorcism'

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Actually, having re-read it, the Pope did not exorcise her, he blessed her three times. I believe an exorcism requires a lot more than a blessing. I can only assume the spin on the article was made up by the paper, and I would doubt if Fr Amorth said that PJP ‘exoricsed’ the girl.
 
ProVobis said:
Was he using the 1614 ritual or the reformed 1999 ritual?
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Haha.
Melchior said:
Does it matter?
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According to many reputable exorcists in their books (Amorth, Fortea, etc.) it most certainly does. The Diocese of Tulsa just finished yesterday offering a seminar for priests and seminarians on the 1614 (erroneously called the 1962) ritual exclusively, as it’s said to be more effective than the 1999 ritual.
 
Fr. Amorith also said that a Protestant charismatic church was able to completely exorcise a man in one session. He said it would have taken him many session over a great deal of time.

So is it the words or …
 
Nope! Agree with prior posts not an exorcism! AND even if were! Let’s have fun with the anti-cat position!! I have read some heavy stuff re exorcism : there is a class of possessed individuals referred to as totally/ or absolutely possession … In documents going back Centuries … These folk are Rare…(thankfully ) but…seem not to ever respond to exorcism! Common denominator!.. These sad individuals, seem to be DEEPLY involved in High-Satanism, Darker Forms of Witchcraft …and seem (scary as it is) to have “Offered their Bodies as Vessels Willingly to “Demon” Spirits.”… Interesting note here!!! Hitler in the Hapsburg Museum 5 years before coming to Munich…Hitler on a Powerful Hallcegenetic…Might have been Peyote… Hitler was deeply into the occult in any event (look at the symbols on…SS uniforms…death heads are obvious…but other subtle occult symbols cover the uniforms! …but to Hitler…he stared at the “Spear of Longinus " he in his own personal diary wrote: before it (the spear) a super spirit emergerged, it asked me…to open myself to it” I very much wished to be one with this force…I accepted it…cold…as I felt it enter…then warmth…then clarity and…Destiny!!! Point to my ramble???(-: Even were it an exorcism…was not…there are and have been cases of possession SO deep…the spirit cannot be cast out…even by a Pope! That’s NO attack on the Petrine Graces!!! Please…don’t accuse me of it!! It (the spirit ) cannot be removed for a simple reason!!! The Person-Host Body…wants it …sought it…in free will they gave themselves as vessels…even our Lord…while “able” to cast out such a spirit (we read of no biblical encounters of this nature) but based on How Christ dealt with broad spiritual issues…He in general…did not override free will…! If a person is deranged and evil and self destructive enough to "offer the body as a “Vessel” for a Demon Spirit Willingly…they have chosen their path! A bad one but…one they chose! But as I say!!! I’m being hypothetical here!!! This is a backup response to those who would attack JP2 …in that I would say: look pal! It was not an exorcism!!! Ok! Even if it had been…my church has documented and collated extreme /full/absolute/total possession cases in which…that spirits not going anywhere…for these reasons…
 
incense said:
Fr. Amorith also said that a Protestant charismatic church was able to completely exorcise a man in one session. He said it would have taken him many session over a great deal of time.
So is it the words or …
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Not an exorcism. If you been involved in exorcisms, you will soon learn that demons are not impressed with our earthly standards of: degrees, priestly attire, stature or position within the Church. They are free of time and dimensional space. Demons fear only one thing, the holiness of the person involved in the exorcism. It is not the person, himself, that cast the spirits out but the power, δύναμη, dunamin, of the Holy Spirit under the authority of Christ operating through that person, that cast the spirits out. If you think it is your authority that causes them to depart, think again. It is only in co-operation and under submission to Christ authority that you have the ability and gift to cast them out. Also, in some possessions, demonic spirits will only depart after a period of fasting as recorded in the Gospels.
 
I fail to see the importance of the claim that Blessed Pope John Paul II was unable after a few blessings to remove demonic influence over someone. God is not a holy vending machine where we put in the correct prayer (1614 or 1999 rite) and force His hand. His plan is a mystery to us. We follow Christ and do as He commands keeping the hope that God’s grace will save us.

I love Blessed Pope John Paul II and know in my heart that he is with God interceding for us today more than he was ever able during his time on Earth.
 
Ecoclimber said:
If you been involved in exorcisms, you will soon learn that demons are not impressed with our earthly standards of: degrees, priestly attire, stature or position within the Church.
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Saint Francis couldn’t exorcise a demon in Paris without faculties from the bishop. I couldn’t walk in to a person’s home tomorrow and exorcise them regardless of how many rosaries I said or how often I screamed at the top of my lungs “the power of Christ compels you!”. Some things do matter you know.
 
Whether or not you consider it an Exercism does not matter. I studied Exercism for two years after I received my Doctorate. The spiritual entity in question was no doubt a very powerful foe. In some cases it does indeed take several sessions, mainly because many times there are many demons to exercise. Sometimes they gather like companions in an effort to gather strength, in the same manner that Lucifer did before he was cast out to Heaven. Satan and his followers are always seeking to take control. They want to be god, but it will never happen. God said “I am”. We can do ALL things through Christ Jesus. The battle has already been won. There is absolutely nothing that He cannot do. When we command it in Jesus Name, the demons MUST go. It is written!
 
YoungTradCath said:
Haha.

According to many reputable exorcists in their books (Amorth, Fortea, etc.) it most certainly does. The Diocese of Tulsa just finished yesterday offering a seminar for priests and seminarians on the 1614 (erroneously called the 1962) ritual exclusively, as it’s said to be more effective than the 1999 ritual.
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If both rituals invoke the power of God why would one be more effective than the other?

Is the 1999 ritual a ‘diet exorcism’?
 
Blessed Pope John Paul II was a great pontif, but he was not Jesus Christ. Even the Apostles were confounded by the fact that certain demons were impossible for them to expel, whereupon Our Lord informed them that certain exorcisms require much fasting and prayer before the demonic force can be removed from a person.

For me, this story registers as a cautionary tale regarding the power of Satan more than it does any deficit regarding our former pope. Never underestimate the forces of darkness.
 
unafraid said:
Blessed Pope John Paul II was a great pontif, but he was not Jesus Christ. Even the Apostles were confounded by the fact that certain demons were impossible for them to expel, whereupon Our Lord informed them that certain exorcisms require much fasting and prayer before the demonic force can be removed from a person.

For me, this story registers as a cautionary tale regarding the power of Satan more than it does any deficit regarding our former pope. Never underestimate the forces of darkness.
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Is God and the word of God not infinity stronger than the forces of darkness?

Do certain exorcisms ‘require much fasting and prayer’ because God demands more sacrifice from the person doing the expelling before he will help or because the demonic force can offer strong resistence to God?
 
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