Pope laments broken marriage bonds, calls for equal pay for equal work [CC]

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ProVobis said:
I was in programming for 35 years, and even among people with the same experience, no two people were given the same assignments or were willing to put in the same amount of time. Tough to compare that.
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They complained enough in my office that management decided to offer an upward mobility program in which women employees could train for non-traditional jobs, like technicians. After they completed training, they entered a career field that led to a journeyman’s position in a couple of years. The first thing they did was to start taking 2-hour lunch breaks, because, darnit, them engineers take 2 hours. Some even came back sporting fancy permanents. They were unmoved by the fact that engineers are professionals and are not paid by the hour. As a result, engineers all had plenty of unpaid overtime while in the field.
 
nodito said:
… perhaps it’s worth exploring why that is?
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Some women are too busy playing sex politics to be as productive. They drag the average down.

The claim has been made that women get only $0.70 for every $1 a man gets. This is just not true, and I can prove it. Stay witn me on this, now:

Man . . . . . . Woman
$1.00. . . . . .$0.70
$0.50. . . . . .$1.20
$1.00. . . . . .$1.70
$0.50. . . . . .$1.70

Man gets $1; woman gets $0.70. But the woman gets half of what the man gets [half of his is hers], for a total of $1.20. But now the man has only $0.50, so he has to get another $0.50 which requires that he make another $1. In the end, the man gets 2 X $0.50 = $1 while the woman ends up with $1.70.

So, for every $1 a man gets, the woman gets $1.70. 😃
 
unstoppable_II said:
Some women are too busy playing sex politics to be as productive. They drag the average down.
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Ouch.

You’re arguing that women are paid less for the same work because they are, on the whole, not working as productively as men employed in the same position. It’s a serious accusation that you’ll need to substantiate in order for me to take you seriously.
 
nodito said:
Ouch.

You’re arguing that women are paid less for the same work because they are, on the whole, not working as productively as men employed in the same position. …
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How could they be producing the same work?
 
ProVobis said:
Well, you brought up the subject of value, and it’s related to one’s worth to a company when he is let go before others, I would think.
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The chart does not show that men are let go before women. It shows that traditionally male-dominated sectors like construction suffered more during the recession than sectors that tend to employ more females, like health care.
 
unstoppable_II said:
How could they be producing the same work?
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Because comparably trained and educated individuals are capable of doing the same work? Because women are just as intelligent as men?

Seriously, unstoppable? You think reports or budgets or computer code written by women is, on the whole, worth at least 7% less than the work of men hired to do the same job?
 
nodito said:
The chart does not show that men are let go before women. It shows that traditionally male-dominated sectors like construction suffered more during the recession than sectors that tend to employ more females, like health care.
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As Newsweek notes this week, of the 15 jobs categories expected to grow fastest in the next decade, 13 are staffed primarily by women.
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So how do men seeking work benefit in all this?
 
nodito said:
By the way, what are “sex politics”?
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Here are some real examples:

Case #1. A female is having an affair with Mr. Bigg. She decides to have him relieve her of some of the less desirable tasks in her description of duties. Mr. Schmuckattelli sitting in the corner minding his own business and doing his work gets her undesirable work dumped on him by Mr. Bigg.

Case #2. A team of engineering supervisors have to select an employee to run an errand. We [as a group] select a new hire secretary so she can learn the ropes. She heartily agrees. Mzzz Secretary No. One gets wind of it and decides [without consulting us] that we’re beating up on poor Mzzz Little Secretary and reports this enormous crime against humanity to Mr. Bigg, who decides to re-open the Nuremberg Trials with Schmuckattelli as a defendant … again.
 
ProVobis said:
So how do men seeking work benefit in all this?
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Uh…

ProVobis, I think you’re trying to somehow demonstrate that women cannot be disadvantaged in the workplace because men are suffering from unemployment or not experience fast job growth. Is that right?

It’s not about one gender benefiting over the other, or keeping the other down. I don’t think men should get less pay for their work, to make it “fair.” I don’t think companies should be required to hire equal numbers of men and women. But if, across the board, female teachers with the same hours and years experience makes less than their male counterparts, we ought to consider that there may be a systemic reason for that that ought to be addressed.
 
unstoppable_II said:
Here are some real examples:

Case #1. A female is having an affair with Mr. Bigg. She decides to have him relieve her of some of the less desirable tasks in her description of duties. Mr. Schmuckattelli sitting in the corner minding his own business and doing his work gets her undesirable work dumped on him by Mr. Bigg.

Case #2. A team of engineering supervisors have to select an employee to run an errand. We [as a group] select a new hire secretary so she can learn the ropes. She heartily agrees. Mzzz Secretary No. One gets wind of it and decides [without consulting us] that we’re beating up on poor Mzzz Little Secretary and reports this enormous crime against humanity to Mr. Bigg, who decides to re-open the Nuremberg Trials with Schmuckattelli as a defendant … again.
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In these examples, wouldn’t Mr. Bigg, the male, also be guilty of participating in your so-called “sex politics”?
 
nodito said:
In these examples, wouldn’t Mr. Bigg, the male, also be guilty of participating in your so-called “sex politics”?
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nodito said:
In these examples, wouldn’t Mr. Bigg, the male, also be guilty of participating in your so-called “sex politics”?
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To my way of thinking, yes; but you’d be surprised how many women don’t consider the woman guilty of anything, not even of offending Schmuckattelli. It should be noted here that the woman initiated the quid pro quo.
 
nodito said:
… …, we ought to consider that there may be a systemic reason for that that ought to be addressed.
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You mean like the male is teaching advanced calculus and the woman is teaching arithmetic?
 
unstoppable_II said:
You mean like the male is teaching advanced calculus and the woman is teaching arithmetic?
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No, more like both teaching advanced calculus. Now there could be a legitimate reason why both will not get paid equally. Either one of them is an adjunct professor or a student tutor while the other is a tenured professor. I have known Ph.D professors who although tenured make a lot less than other tenured professors because they teach at smaller colleges instead of bigger universities. So there are other reasons why equal work does not always get equal pay aside from sex/race discrimination.

Let’s face it, employers will likely preferentially hire those who they can pay less. A good example are the number of tech people who are coming in from overseas using the H1B visa.
 
Sarcelle said:
No, more like both teaching advanced calculus. Now there could be a legitimate reason why both will not get paid equally. Either one of them is an adjunct professor or a student tutor while the other is a tenured professor. I have known Ph.D professors who although tenured make a lot less than other tenured professors because they teach at smaller colleges instead of bigger universities. So there are other reasons why equal work does not always get equal pay aside from sex/race discrimination.

Let’s face it, employers will likely preferentially hire those who they can pay less. A good example are the number of tech people who are coming in from overseas using the H1B visa.
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Agreed, but why don’t they just hire mostly women?
 
ProVobis said:
If they belong to the same union, given the same number of years worked and degrees earned, that would be equal.
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This whole idea of equality is dumb. People don’t want equality, otherwise, why do they work so hard to rise above? At my son’s college graduation ceremony, my wife an I got to stand in the blistering sun while the professors, who profess equality, got to sit on a nice shady stage.

I encourage you to read, “Economic Organization of a POW Camp” at facstaff. uww. edu/kashianr/POWCampRadford. pdf by economist R.A. Radford who describes what happens when people, although confined, are free to engage in trade to better their condition. This is the real basic economics. A Leftist injected into this scenario would immediately decry one prisoner having two candy bars and another none, even though this was the result of voluntary trade. The Leftist would immediately work to redistribute the goods so everyone had an equal amount of every item. I would have the same number of cigarettes as the smoker, even though I don’t smoke. The overall well-being of the POWs would be lowered as a result.

In this setup, there was no government to make the POW economy “fair” through an “economic policy”, which in itself is an oxymoron. Who is the “winner” if the result is all have the same? The overall well-being of the POWs would be lowered as a result. This is exactly what is happening under liberal government.
Lady Mary: Are you ambitious?
Crichton [the butler]: Ambitious? For what?
Lady Mary: To better yourself.
Crichton: My lady! I am the son of a butler and a lady’s maid. The happiest of all combinations. To me the most beautiful thing in the world is a haughty English aristocratic home with everyone kept in his place.
Lady Mary: That’s not how my father would have it.
Crichton: Indeed, he would not, my lady. He would have equality for all. But what good would that do? Any satisfaction I might derive out of being your equal would be ruined by the footman being equal to me.
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The Admirable Crichton
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Economist Vilfredo Pareto said, “If incomes are equalized, they will be equalized at a low level.” Think about it.
 
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