Pope leads "New Liturgical Movement" by example

[japhy]

Here’s a translation of an article from Le Figaro (a secular French newspaper) about the manner of liturgical actions being celebrated by Pope Benedict XVI. Regarding the more traditional elements which are being restored, when the question arises if this is the agenda or private determination of Msgr. Guido Marini, the new Papal Master of Ceremonies, the article says: “It would betray poor knowledge of the operation of the Holy See to imagine that he [Marini] is the sole person responsible for this … It is therefore Benedict XVI himself who wishes this new course.” (Ce serait mal connaître le fonctionnement du Saint-Siège que d’imaginer qu’il en soit l’unique responsable … C’est donc bien Benoît XVI qui souhaite ce nouveau cours.)

The article also reveals how the Pope is leading by example rather than by merely issuing edicts.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi,

Certainly we do know that the Holy Father prefers more traditional worship.

We also know that he has made it perfectly clear that his preference has no negative implication on other legitimate forms.

Personally, I think it sends mixed messages to have a different form of distribution of Holy Communion. If the kneeling posture is preferred, then it would be better if it is for everyone at the Mass. The intended message would have been far more clear if the wording had been “kneel before Our Lord, Jesus Christ” rather than “kneel before the Holy Father” in instructing the kneeling posture for reception of Holy Communion from the Holy Father at Papal Masses.

Lux

 

[bkovacs]

Hi,

Certainly we do know that the Holy Father prefers more traditional worship.

We also know that he has made it perfectly clear that his preference has no negative implication on other legitimate forms.

Personally, I think it sends mixed messages to have a different form of distribution of Holy Communion. If the kneeling posture is preferred, then it would be better if it is for everyone at the Mass. The intended message would have been far more clear if the wording had been “kneel before Our Lord, Jesus Christ” rather than “kneel before the Holy Father” in instructing the kneeling posture for reception of Holy Communion from the Holy Father at Papal Masses.

Lux

Problem here is that most of the clergy in the Roman Catholic Church today prefers the “other legitimate forms”, which personally, I can’t stand and keeps me from going back to a Roman Catholic Church. The Orthodox Church seems to be my home now, until the Extra-Ordinary becomes the Ordinary. And the sense of sacredness and tradition is restored. But who knows. By then I may be Orthodox. I hope the Pope’s example is followed!.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi,

I have no problem with Eastern rite or traditional latin, as long as the implication is not that they are more reverant, or “better” in theological significance.

Do you have any thoughts on this

Lux:

The intended message would have been far more clear if the wording had been “kneel before Our Lord, Jesus Christ” rather than “kneel before the Holy Father” in instructing the kneeling posture for reception of Holy Communion from the Holy Father at Papal Masses.

Lux

 

[Joannm]

Hi,

Certainly we do know that the Holy Father prefers more traditional worship.

We also know that he has made it perfectly clear that his preference has no negative implication on other legitimate forms.

Personally, I think it sends mixed messages to have a different form of distribution of Holy Communion. If the kneeling posture is preferred, then it would be better if it is for everyone at the Mass. The intended message would have been far more clear if the wording had been “kneel before Our Lord, Jesus Christ” rather than “kneel before the Holy Father” in instructing the kneeling posture for reception of Holy Communion from the Holy Father at Papal Masses.

Lux

Th only ones kneeling at papal masses are those receiving from the pope himself. Everyone else stands at papal masses.

 

[japhy]

The intended message would have been far more clear if the wording had been “kneel before Our Lord, Jesus Christ” rather than “kneel before the Holy Father” in instructing the kneeling posture for reception of Holy Communion from the Holy Father at Papal Masses.

I don’t know where exactly the wording is, but I would assume it was phrased that way because those receiving from the Pope alone would be receiving kneeling; that is, that the Pope was not enforcing the other ministers of Holy Communion to require kneeling from their communicants.

I would hope the people who acquiesce and kneel before the Holy Father when receiving Holy Communion know they are really kneeling because it is the Lord whom they are receiving.

Let me put it this way. In my parish, no one kneels for Holy Communion; we have no altar rail, no pads, no nothing; it would be difficult for most of us to stably kneel, receive, and get up without causing a ruckus (spatially, I mean). I would love to be able to attend Mass in a place that allowed me to kneel for Holy Communion; I would kneel no matter who the minister was, Pope, Cardinal, bishop, priest, deacon, EMHC. I would kneel for our Lord. I have only done this three times in my life. I would love to do it more often.

Perhaps, just perhaps, some of the people who attend Masses celebrated by the Holy Father relish the permission and freedom to kneel before their Lord as they receive Him in the Blessed Sacrament, a permission and freedom they don’t readily find elsewhere.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi again,

I did notice the wording, which is why I commented.

I personally feel that the absence of a uniform posture really detracts from good community worship. Also standing in a kneeling environment is far less awkward than kneeling in a standing environment. Pick one and enforce it.—better than this haphazard free for all going on now.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

ps I admire your spirit of community worship in standing as is requested, rather than kneeling as you would prefer.

 

[palmas85]

Hi again,

I did notice the wording, which is why I commented.

I personally feel that the absence of a uniform posture really detracts from good community worship. Also standing in a kneeling environment is far less awkward than kneeling in a standing environment. Pick one and enforce it.—better than this haphazard free for all going on now.

Lux

How does it do that?

 

[palmas85]

Th only ones kneeling at papal masses are those receiving from the pope himself. Everyone else stands at papal masses.

So far, correct. However, I would not be surprised if it was extended to all in the future.

 

[Joannm]

So far, correct. However, I would not be surprised if it was extended to all in the future.

In many cases that would be impractice. Just imagine people trying to kneel at a stadium Mass where there is barely room to walk. Or on a wet field where they are tens of thousands receiving communion. Even in St. Peter’s square with great crowds. It might be possible in a church if there were a rail or kneelers set up but not in a huge venue as we see with papal masses.

 

[japhy]

In many cases that would be impractical. Just imagine people trying to kneel at a stadium Mass where there is barely room to walk. Or on a wet field where they are tens of thousands receiving communion. Even in St. Peter’s square with great crowds. It might be possible in a church if there were a rail or kneelers set up but not in a huge venue as we see with papal masses.

Masses with such enormous crowds, and in inappropriate venues (e.g. stadiums), are probably on their way out, along with enormous concelebrations.

And when Mass is celebrated with an enormous crowd like that, there is always the possibility of reserving the Communion of the faithful for some other venue, as was done a month ago in Bavaria: “For the communion of the faithful, a kneeler was used, and it was announced that this was at the request of Archbishop Ranjith, and after the example of the Pope … Also, it was announced that due to the nature of the open air venue and the rain, not everyone would be able to receive Communion; however, there would be ample opportunity to receive Holy Communion later in the church.”

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

"Lux:

I personally feel that the absence of a uniform posture really detracts from good community worship.

How does it do that?

I have always been moved by a solemn procession. We were always taught the reverence of the flowing movement. (I am also moved by the processonal chant) It is very distrcting to me to have people doing their own thing. I will do whatever is instructed—I just wish there would be a more firm instruction, and everyone would follow.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Masses with such enormous crowds, and in inappropriate venues (e.g. stadiums), are probably on their way out, along with enormous concelebrations.

And when Mass is celebrated with an enormous crowd like that, there is always the possibility of reserving the Communion of the faithful for some other venue, as was done a month ago in Bavaria: “For the communion of the faithful, a kneeler was used, and it was announced that this was at the request of Archbishop Ranjith, and after the example of the Pope … Also, it was announced that due to the nature of the open air venue and the rain, not everyone would be able to receive Communion; however, there would be ample opportunity to receive Holy Communion later in the church.”

And you feel this is preferable to a Communion procession?

Lux

 

[japhy]

And you feel this is preferable to a Communion procession?

There’d be a Communion procession, just not in the context of that Mass, in that specific locale, in those conditions. Or perhaps I don’t know what you mean by “Communion procession”.

 

[palmas85]

In many cases that would be impractice. Just imagine people trying to kneel at a stadium Mass where there is barely room to walk. Or on a wet field where they are tens of thousands receiving communion. Even in St. Peter’s square with great crowds. It might be possible in a church if there were a rail or kneelers set up but not in a huge venue as we see with papal masses.

I actually received kneeling in the rain and mud outside of Dong Tam Vietnam on several occasions when there were a lot of us there. I don’t buy the excuse that you cannot kneel outdoors with lots of people there. I’ve done it.

I have never agreed with Masses in stadiums at all and see no real reason for them.

A kneeler is not necessary nor are rails.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

There’d be a Communion procession, just not in the context of that Mass, in that specific locale, in those conditions. Or perhaps I don’t know what you mean by “Communion procession”.

OK—Do you feel that this Communion outside of the Mass is preferable to the usual communion procession with the standing posture, which has always worked at Papal Masses in the past?

Lux

 

[Joannm]

OK—Do you feel that this Communion outside of the Mass is preferable to the usual communion procession with the standing posture, which has always worked at Papal Masses in the past?

Lux

I think that would be more of an “abuse” than not having people receive kneeling at a particular mass. Communion is to be received at the celebration of the Eucharist and not following it. That was one of the reasons why the reforms of the Mass were necessary in the first place.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I agree.

 

[japhy]

Do you feel that this Communion outside of the Mass is preferable to the usual communion procession with the standing posture

I think that would be more of an “abuse” than not having people receive kneeling at a particular mass. Communion is to be received at the celebration of the Eucharist and not following it. That was one of the reasons why the reforms of the Mass were necessary in the first place.

First, as for Masses where not all the faithful (who are able) can receive Holy Communion, or where only the priest receives: such Masses are not an “abuse” or illegal. Mediator Dei, of Pope Pius XII:112. The august sacrifice of the altar is concluded with communion or the partaking of the divine feast. But, as all know, the integrity of the sacrifice only requires that the priest partake of the heavenly food. Although it is most desirable that the people should also approach the holy table, this is not required for the integrity of the sacrifice.

1. We wish in this matter to repeat the remarks which Our predecessor Benedict XIV makes with regard to the definitions of the Council of Trent: “First We must state that none of the faithful can hold that private Masses, in which the priest alone receives holy communion, are therefore unlawful and do not fulfill the idea of the true, perfect and complete unbloody sacrifice instituted by Christ our Lord. For the faithful know quite well, or at least can easily be taught, that the Council of Trent, supported by the doctrine which the uninterrupted tradition of the Church has preserved, condemned the new and false opinion of Luther as opposed to this tradition.” “If anyone shall say that Masses in which the priest only receives communion, are unlawful, and therefore should be abolished, let him be anathema.”

…

1. Now it is very fitting, as the liturgy otherwise lays down, that the people receive holy communion after the priest has partaken of the divine repast upon the altar; and, as we have written above, they should be commended who, when present at Mass, receive hosts consecrated at the same Mass, so that it is actually verified, “that as many of us, as, at this altar, shall partake of and receive the most holy body and blood of thy Son, may be filled with every heavenly blessing and grace.”
2. Still sometimes there may be a reason, and that not infrequently, why holy communion should be distributed before or after Mass and even immediately after the priest receives the sacred species - and even though hosts consecrated at a previous Mass should be used. In these circumstances - as we have stated above - the people duly take part in the eucharistic sacrifice and not seldom they can in this way more conveniently receive holy communion. Still, though the Church with the kind heart of a mother strives to meet the spiritual needs of her children, they, for their part, should not readily neglect the directions of the liturgy and, as often as there is no reasonable difficulty, should aim that all their actions at the altar manifest more clearly the living unity of the Mystical Body.
   As for the liturgical reforms stated in Vatican II’s Constitution on the Liturgy, the only real mention I’ve seen regarding Communion is in n. 55, which says, in part: “That more perfect form of participation in the Mass whereby the faithful, after the priest’s communion, receive the Lord’s body from the same sacrifice, is strongly commended.” That refers to the people receiving newly-consecrated hosts.