Pope Lifts Excommunications of SSPX Bishops

[Christus_Rex_1]

Here’s a good link for the latest

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

It appears that the decree will be published tomorrow with a cooresponding explanation in tomorows L’Osservatore Romano.

First the admission that the old Mass was never abrogated and now this! Thank God for Pope Benedict the Great.

 

[bobzills]

That is exactly my concern.

What sort of a message are we sending to the rest of the world?

The head of the SSPX, Bishop Fellay, is a reasonable man, and also, the SSPX has many excellent and saintly priests. However, some of the wild statements and conspiracy theories of Bishop Williamson could be a problem.

 

[JPUSC]

If accurate, this is good news for all Traditonalist Catholics, for all conservative Catholics, and for all Catholics who love both the Latin Mass and unity in Holy Mother Church…

in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-37602820090122

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2009/01/surprise-for-tomorrow.html

Actually it’s good news for ALL Catholics. It will take care of all those dissenters who thought Vatican II and running amok were synonymous.

The anti-Semitic SSPX members really do need to get their act together though. Discrimination is a mortal sin.

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

Actually it’s good news for ALL Catholics. It will take care of all those dissenters who thought Vatican II and running amok were synonymous.

The anti-Semitic SSPX members really do need to get their act together though. Discrimination is a mortal sin./

What do you mean when you say that discrimination is a mortal sin? Discrimination is a necessary act of the reason.

 

[JPUSC]

What do you mean when you say that discrimination is a mortal sin? Discrimination is a necessary act of the reason.

Anti-semitism is a sin, so if the SSPX members who are also anti-semitic are going to be received back into full communion, they would need to change their attitude.

In her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel’s spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

NOSTRA AETATE, Pope Paul VI​

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

 

[UnusMilitum]

To Lizaanne and others concerned about Bp. Williamson, this is what Bp. Fellay had to say to the people who interviewed Williamson most recently:

"To whom it may concern,

Please allow me to introduce myself. I am the General Superior of the Society of Saint Pius X. I have been informed of an interview granted by Bishop Williamson, a member of our Society, to the Swedish TV and scheduled to be broadcasted this evening. Although it had been understood that the interview would deal with religious issues only, the reporter asked the bishop’s opinion concerning historical matters. It is obvious that a bishop can only speak about questions of faith and morals with any ecclesiastical authority. If he deals with secular issues, he is personally responsible for his own private opinions. The Society I am governing has no authority to address such issues, nor will it ever claim such authority."

And the letter continues further. To anybody who assumes that the SSPX is full (or has even an almost non-existent number) of anti-semites, what basis have you for said assumptions?

I thank God for the Pope and hope his announcement will be good news to all.

 

[JReducation]

The difference here is the EO is in schism, and the SSPX is not. They acknowledge every doctrine and dogma of the Church.

What does remain to be seen though, is how they will be brought back. You can’t just have bishops floating around. They need bishoprics. Where would those be? Presumably they would want to stay as an autonomous group, ie a religious order.

Of course, assuming the action has taken place, I am sure this has been taken care of as well, I just don’t know how

Your concern is valid, but remember, many bishops do not have an actual diocese. They are often given dioceses that are no longer in existence.

As to their status, the SSPX is not a religious community. They are a society of secular priests, as are the Opus Dei. They could be given a prelature, like the Opus Dei has. This would keep them in communion with the Church, but at the same time out of the mainstream, as is Opus Dei.

We’ll have to wait and see the full statement by the Holy Father. I know that they had been offered a prelature in June 2007 and Williamson was very vocal about turning it down, because the wanted the Holy See to recant certain teachings of Vatican II.

However, Felay is the Superior of the Society and Williamson is just one voice. That’s important to consider too. Felay seems like a much more gentle person.

JR

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

Anti-semitism is a sin, so if the SSPX members who are also anti-semitic are going to be received back into full communion, they would need to change their attitude.

Of course hating someone (a Jew) because of their race is a sin, but the SSPX does not hate Jews. In fact, they worship one. Saying something that some Jews may not like to hear is not the same AntiSemetism.

I have a question for you: Is it anti-Catholic for the Jews to say that Jesus is in hell? That is what their blasphemous Talmud says. Do you see how upside down everything is? If someone questions the historical truth of certain questionable aspects of the haulocost (the sacred cow that no one can even question) they are consider Antisemitic; yet a Jew can reject Jesus Christ and claim he is in hell and no one cares.

 

[maize]

JPII did not excommunicate them, they excommunicated themselves by their schismatic act(NB: I do not hold them to be in Schism, but this is how Ecclesia Dei has described the act).

However, if Pope Benedict has decided to lift the excommunications, it has not been without careful consideration.

why do they need pope benedict to lift the excommunications if they excommunicated themselves?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

As I stated earlier in this thread, if you think members of SSPX return to the Catholic Church will be without conflict, think again.

And if Pope Benedict gives into them, what will he do when millions who embrace Vatican II reforms, do the same as SSPX did, leave and start their own church? After all, there will be far more of them than those who left with Bishop Lefebvre

I still think its a poor decision by Pope Benedict.

This will cause more division in the Church than unity.

Heck, look at the division in this website.

Jim

 

[Leonius]

What about the concerns regarding Bishop Richard Williamson? He apparently has denied the Holocaust and said the gas chambers were a “myth”.

This is very VERY disconcerting to me.

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5567829.ece

~Liza

While I don’t agree with his opinion that only 300,000 Jews were killed by the nazis, simply holding a different view of a historical event from the most accepted one is not valid grounds for excommunication.

 

[Leonius]

The anti-Semitic SSPX members really do need to get their act together though. Discrimination is a mortal sin.

That is the mortal sin of calumny. Can you prove your accusations at all?

 

[Leonius]

This will cause more division in the Church than unity.

Heck, look at the division in this website.

Jim

Those divisions were already here, they aren’t a result of this in my opinion.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

While I don’t agree with his opinion that only 300,000 Jews were killed by the nazis, simply holding a different view of a historical event from the most accepted one is not valid grounds for excommunication.

I agree with you, but I hope it is grounds to suspend him as a bishop. Does lifting the excommunication mean that this person is actually a bishop in the Catholic Church now? If so, he needs to be dealt with.

Found it on fox news this morning:
Pope Lifts Excommunications of 4 Bishops

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Pope Lifts Excommunications of 4 Bishops

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI has lifted the excommunications of four bishops consecrated without papal consent 20 years ago by the late French ultraconservative Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the Vatican announced Saturday.

One of the four bishops was shown this week in a Swedish state TV interview saying that historical evidence “is hugely against 6 million Jews having been deliberately gassed.” The report prompted Rome’s chief rabbi to ask the Vatican to halt plans to rehabilitate him.

The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said Bishop Richard Williamson’s views had no impact on the decision to lift the excommunication decree.

…more…

I think this is great, but I sure hope they suspend Williamson as a bishop, someone who makes comments about the holocaust like that shouldn’t have the title of bishop.

 

[Leonius]

I agree with you, but I hope it is grounds to suspend him as a bishop. Does lifting the excommunication mean that this person is actually a bishop in the Catholic Church now? If so, he needs to be dealt with.

Found it on fox news this morning:
Pope Lifts Excommunications of 4 Bishops

Nope it is not grounds to suspend him, there is nothing in Canon Law that says you can suspend a Bishop for having a personal opinion on a matter of history, and nor should there be, Catholics are allowed to make up there own minds up about some things you know?

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

As I stated earlier in this thread, if you think members of SSPX return to the Catholic Church will be without conflict, think again.

And if Pope Benedict gives into them, what will he do when millions who embrace Vatican II reforms, do the same as SSPX did, leave and start their own church? After all, there will be far more of them than those who left with Bishop Lefebvre

I still think its a poor decision by Pope Benedict.

This will cause more division in the Church than unity.

Heck, look at the division in this website.

Jim

I guess you think you know better than the Pope. Careful, you seem to be on a schismatic trajectory.

 

[LilyM]

Nope it is not grounds to suspend him, there is nothing in Canon Law that says you can suspend a Bishop for having a personal opinion on a matter of history, and nor should there be, Catholics are allowed to make up there own minds up about some things you know?

For Neil: the answer is no, they are not automatically granted the status of bishop by the lifting of the excommunications, their canonical status is still being considered.

As for Bishop Williamson’s views - his views are certainly extremely offensive and fly in the face of all reputable historical research into the Holocaust. The resulting scandal may not be cause for suspension, but some sort of clarification, such as has already been given by Fellay, and charitable fraternal correction of Williamson would certainly be in order.

 

[tuviskazinai]

While I don’t agree with his opinion that only 300,000 Jews were killed by the nazis, simply holding a different view of a historical event from the most accepted one is not valid grounds for excommunication.

The thing is, we are not talking about some vague, murky historical side-note or unsolved mystery, here. The gruesome extent of the Holocaust is one of the most studied and best documented historical calamities of all time. If this individual has such a skeptical position on it, one absolutely has to question why. Does he have virulently anti-Semitic motives? I wouldn’t doubt it for a second, as that seems to be the common bond of most Holocaust deniers. Or perhaps he is simply crazy, or an idiot…? I think you’d almost have to be to say some of the things he’s said.

But anyway, I can think of absolutely no good excuse for his views, which in my opinion make him gravely unfit to be a pastor of the Church.

I also disagree with the implication of Fellay and some others that “history” is a kind of academic curiosity best left to specialists – that as long as the man is fit dogmatically, he’s entitled to his own personal opinions about what happened in the past, and we can take them with a grain of salt. But we should never take history with a grain of salt. If we are expected to know enough about history to accept that Jesus Christ, who was killed 2000 years ago with barely any historical documentation to attest to it, is risen from the dead, I think we can be expected to understand something about the 6 million murders that occurred barely 60 years ago.

History is the story of reality unfolding over time; there is truth to be found there. Bishops are not just called upon to understand academic theology – they are called upon to understand the* truth*. Why? Well, understanding the implications of this historical event is important for pastoral reasons, of course (we have an especially urgent moral responsibility to appreciate our closeness to the Jewish people), but also – it is the truth which sets us free. To take just one practical example, it was deniers like Williamson who didn’t believe such a thing could be happening that allowed the Holocaust to be perpetuated in so many Catholic and Christian countries during the 30s and 40s.

In the end, I trust Pope Benedict’s decision, but I certainly hope that he will have something to say about this one particular “bishop” and his either poisonous or woefully misguided statements.

Peace,
+AMDG+

 

[hosemonkey]

Deo Gratias! I personally welcome this development in the life of our Church. The prodigal sons have been welcomed home and healing can begin. SSPX can bring new vigor and vitality to the Church, but moreso a firm connection to tradition. I would much rather have them for us, than against us. And they need to be rooted in the Body of Christ in order to receive the nourishment and sustenance that only a firm connection to the magisterium can provide. Differences need to be resolved, but within the family, not outside of it. My family and I attended a SSPX chapel for 5 years and will again, but SSPX needs that connection to the Magisterium. As fas as Bp. Williamson goes, he always has been a bubble off, I have had several conversations with him and his views on women and the BVM are shaky too, but the broad picture is more important. SSPX doesn’t rise and fall on Bp. Williamson’s personal abberations.