Pope Links Economic Crisis with Individualism, Urges Reform
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Joe_Hill
Guest
I am surprised this has been overlooked 
I was also disappointed with how little was quoted from the speech directly.
Could it be that there are editors of media outlets, even nominally catholic ones, that are “individualists” and therefore do not welcome these words of our Pope?
I was also disappointed with how little was quoted from the speech directly.
Could it be that there are editors of media outlets, even nominally catholic ones, that are “individualists” and therefore do not welcome these words of our Pope?
Hmm sounds like fans of Ayn Rand and Gordon Gecko are part of a bigger problem.
J
Joe_Hill
Guest
Good on CAF for posting this story:thumbsup:
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ringil
Guest
According to most posters around here we can solve the Economic Crisis by decreasing or downright eliminating any government influence on the free market system.
When the Pope makes these kinds of statements they are either ignored, or totally twisted around here, to fit into folks’ conservative economic outlook.
It’s really unfortunate.
When the Pope makes these kinds of statements they are either ignored, or totally twisted around here, to fit into folks’ conservative economic outlook.
It’s really unfortunate.
J
Joe_Hill
Guest
Well I haven’t been round long enough to comment.According to most posters around here we can solve the Economic Crisis by decreasing or downright eliminating any government influence on the free market system.
When the Pope makes these kinds of statements they are either ignored, or totally twisted around here, to fit into folks’ conservative economic outlook.
It’s really unfortunate.
:blush:I would say, however, that Caritas in Veritate the encyclical b this Pope, is very clearly against unbridled capitalism and unregulated market forces.
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ringil
Guest
Folks around here say that is the liberal’s spin on Caritas in Veritate.Well I haven’t been round long enough to comment.
I would say, however, that Caritas in Veritate the encyclical b this Pope, is very clearly against unbridled capitalism and unregulated market forces.
There is an equisite ability around here to see nearly THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what a given speech or encyclical says.
C
curlycool89
Guest
I’ll give this a kick-start by hopefully saying something more or less neutral.
Individualism or self-centeredness is not a good quality. It cuts us off from our neighbours, and in the worst case turns society into us vs. them (instead of neighbours who look out for each other. By helping each other we are helping Christ, as He said in the Parable of the Lams and the Goats).
Therefore, we can say that a complete free-market system that is reliant only upon individual decisions (where everyone has their own motives, which in pure free-market theory always boils down to simple profit) cannot be good for the greater good of society. Individuals need to therefore be guided by the social principles of the Church (and you should probably read a book or 10 to get a good explanation of that) in their actions.
But, not everyone follows the social principles of the Church, firstly because not everyone is Catholic, but secondly (and more importantly) because many other Christians follow the Prosperity gospel (also known as the “health and wealth” gospel). Because of this disparity, it is the duty of the proper authority to ensure that (at least the minimum) principles are followed by greater society (for example, to uphold the inherent dignity of a worker in their job).
I’m going to give the following analogy (and I mean analogy. I am NOT trying to equate the two issues. This is meant for demonstrative/explanative purposes only).
In our society, the premeditated killing of someone is murder. This comes from a Christian moral principle, and it doesn’t matter whether or not someone wants to believe it. Therefore, society should discourage people (using tactics up to and including punishments) to commit murder. Nobody is going to disagree with that one, and it is up to the proper authority to do so.
It is the same in economics. Since not all people are going to follow Christian social principles, it is up to the proper authority to enforce them. Now, there is a lot more leeway, but having no enforcement whatsoever and just allowing people to do whatever is going to contradict society’s duty towards ensuring social teachings are followed (unless you want to argue that there are no social principles, but I will let those people argue their case with the current Pope).
Individualism or self-centeredness is not a good quality. It cuts us off from our neighbours, and in the worst case turns society into us vs. them (instead of neighbours who look out for each other. By helping each other we are helping Christ, as He said in the Parable of the Lams and the Goats).
Therefore, we can say that a complete free-market system that is reliant only upon individual decisions (where everyone has their own motives, which in pure free-market theory always boils down to simple profit) cannot be good for the greater good of society. Individuals need to therefore be guided by the social principles of the Church (and you should probably read a book or 10 to get a good explanation of that) in their actions.
But, not everyone follows the social principles of the Church, firstly because not everyone is Catholic, but secondly (and more importantly) because many other Christians follow the Prosperity gospel (also known as the “health and wealth” gospel). Because of this disparity, it is the duty of the proper authority to ensure that (at least the minimum) principles are followed by greater society (for example, to uphold the inherent dignity of a worker in their job).
I’m going to give the following analogy (and I mean analogy. I am NOT trying to equate the two issues. This is meant for demonstrative/explanative purposes only).
In our society, the premeditated killing of someone is murder. This comes from a Christian moral principle, and it doesn’t matter whether or not someone wants to believe it. Therefore, society should discourage people (using tactics up to and including punishments) to commit murder. Nobody is going to disagree with that one, and it is up to the proper authority to do so.
It is the same in economics. Since not all people are going to follow Christian social principles, it is up to the proper authority to enforce them. Now, there is a lot more leeway, but having no enforcement whatsoever and just allowing people to do whatever is going to contradict society’s duty towards ensuring social teachings are followed (unless you want to argue that there are no social principles, but I will let those people argue their case with the current Pope).
J
Joe_Hill
Guest
Well, once again I am not familiar enough with the posters on this site to be able to confirm that.
:blush:However, I would say that the encyclical has the authority necessary to end debate.
It is not ambiguous in the least.
A clear call for wealth redistribution, a serious concern for sustainability with regards the enviroment and a huge condemnation on Randian notions of “enlightened self-interest” and unbridled and unregulated free markets.
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
In another thread about something completely different, BrJReducation said that English speaking Catholics are only about 3% of the entire Church. Therefore we conclude that American (US) English speaking Catholics are something less than 3% of the Church. We often forget that beacuse we are such big players in other arenas.
We need to realize that the Church is looking at the entire world situation and seeing problems in other places that we can hardly comprehend. The Church is not a democracy and the world does not run along the tracks we set out. We definatly need to read more about the Church’s real social teaching (not what we assume it is), understand the different vocabulary in economicsand polictics used outside the US and stop being so ‘me-centered’ and parochial.
We need to realize that the Church is looking at the entire world situation and seeing problems in other places that we can hardly comprehend. The Church is not a democracy and the world does not run along the tracks we set out. We definatly need to read more about the Church’s real social teaching (not what we assume it is), understand the different vocabulary in economicsand polictics used outside the US and stop being so ‘me-centered’ and parochial.
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