Pope: Marriage is not an absolute right

[catharina]

"(01-22) 06:51 PST VATICAN CITY, (AP)​

Pope Benedict XVI told priests Saturday to do a better job counseling would-be spouses to ensure their marriages last and said no one has an absolute right to a wedding.

Benedict made the comments in his annual speech to the Roman Rota, the Vatican tribunal that decides marriage annulments. An annulment is the process by which the church effectively declares that a marriage never took place.

Benedict acknowledged that the problems that would allow for a marriage to be annulled cannot always be identified beforehand. But he said better pre-marriage counseling, which the Catholic Church requires of the faithful, could help avoid a “vicious circle” of invalid marriages.

He said the right to a church wedding requires that the bride and groom intend to celebrate and live the marriage truthfully and authentically. …"

Read more: sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/01/22/international/i054206S67.DTL#ixzz1BmZxX1nx

 

[cyberwolf001]

Well at least not an absolute right to a Catholic wedding…

 

[laszlo]

The Vatican’s concern about marriage annulments is largely directed at the United States, which in 2006 had more annulment cases launched than the rest of the world combined.

Read more: sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/01/22/international/i054206S67.DTL#ixzz1Bmt93Xl8

 

[catharina]

Well at least not an absolute right to a Catholic wedding…

Really, there is no absolute right to any proposed marriage.
Every nation, every State, has its own regulations re possible marriages.
You know that, right?

(Hint: think “incest.”)

 

[cyberwolf001]

Really, there is no absolute right to any proposed marriage.
Every nation, every State, has its own regulations re possible marriages.
You know that, right?

(Hint: think “incest.”)

I admit to making the error of assuming common sense on this board, everyday I am here I get proved wrong.

 

[catharina]

I admit to making the error of assuming common sense on this board, everyday I am here I get proved wrong.

Suggestions:

Assume nothing and don’t blame the site.

:tsktsk:

Rather, express yourself more fully.

 

[Tonks40]

Suggestions:

Assume nothing and don’t blame the site.

:tsktsk:

Rather, express yourself more fully.

Yes, because you know what it makes you when you assume things…(I ain’t gonna say it here!)

 

[timotheos]

"(01-22) 06:51 PST VATICAN CITY, (AP)​

Benedict acknowledged that the problems that would allow for a marriage to be annulled cannot always be identified beforehand. But he said better pre-marriage counseling, which the Catholic Church requires of the faithful, could help avoid a “vicious circle” of invalid marriages.

He said the right to a church wedding requires that the bride and groom intend to celebrate and live the marriage truthfully and authentically. …"

Read more: sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/01/22/international/i054206S67.DTL#ixzz1BmZxX1nx

May I go on a bit of a rant here?

This is what I have been so bent out of shape about for a long time. Although it does not rise to the level of the sex-abuse scandal, the lack of priest involvement in helping would-be couples discern the marriage vocation in many, many parishes has been nothing short of abysmal, in my opinion. My parents would have never been allowed to get married if the local priest had done his job, and I would not have had to live with the pain of their dysfunctional marriage and divorce. (In fact, I would not have even been born, saving myself the difficulty of carrying on in a world that I have worked so hard to fit into but that to this day continues to treat me as a reject, but that’s a different rant ) If the priest who “married” my wife and I managed to ask a couple of basic questions, he would have found that I did not at the time believe in God, had no intent on having children, and that we were getting married to try to undo the pain and damage in our lives, and for me to “help” her financially.

How many others out there, directly or indirectly, have also been shown the wrong direction.

I have no question that my “marriage” of 18 years is non-sacramental. To get it “validated” at this time is out of the question, because I now know that I was and am not “called” to the vocation of marriage in the same way many of our Catholic friends were. Several priests with whom we have discussed our difficulties have no idea what to do with us.

So, thank you, Holy Father, for shedding some light on yet another deep, dark secret. Maybe there will be hope for others in the future.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Can. 1058 All persons who are not prohibited by law can contract marriage.

Unless there’s some kind of impediment that can be shown/proven then its a giant headache to deny someone the sacrament…

 

[Pug]

So, thank you, Holy Father, for shedding some light on yet another deep, dark secret. Maybe there will be hope for others in the future.

Your post interested me. I wonder how many people married in the Church have doubts about if they have a sacramental marriage or not. Perhaps many. I suspect many of those who wonder would not be able to ask for a convalidation. I dearly hope more and more couples who marry in the Church know what marriage is at the time they marry.

 

[Dale_M]

Well at least not an absolute right to a Catholic wedding…

Yes, that is what the Pope was addressing: the need for priests to discern whether couple are prepared and able to enter into a sacramental marriage. And the importance of turning away those who are unsuited at the moment.

 

[poker10]

It seems to me the time and effort a priest would have to put into each and every couple would be monumental. I don’t know that it can really be done. Most priests I know are busy people and on call 24/7.

Could there also be lawsuits associated with this if priests suddenly started denying a large number of people marriage in the Church? Just something to think about.

 

[Elizabeth502]

It seems to me the time and effort a priest would have to put into each and every couple would be monumental. I don’t know that it can really be done. Most priests I know are busy people and on call 24/7.

What can be done is to enlist the many available lay Catholics with professional counseling licenses to engage in such preparatory discussions with couples, that’s what. (Under church direction, and in association with the local parish.) And yes, the couple themselves would be required to pay for that service, or at least a portion of it. If they cannot invest in that much time & money prior to this radical life decision, it seems to me that they are leaving the longevity of their relationship to chance, and possibly focusing more on the feel-good of the wedding celebration than the reality of a permanent life together.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It seems to me the time and effort a priest would have to put into each and every couple would be monumental. I don’t know that it can really be done. Most priests I know are busy people and on call 24/7.

Could there also be lawsuits associated with this if priests suddenly started denying a large number of people marriage in the Church? Just something to think about.

Priests are not “on call 24/7”. That is something we need to understand.

Having said that Elizabeth502 provides a solid idea for working this through.

As for lawsuits, some may try but they will fail as the Church is a private institution and has a right to dictate its rules. The Church is not stopping a married, just not allowing it to be a Church marriage.

 

[larkin31]

The claim that marriage is not an “absolute right” is what is most curious to me. The marriage sacrament is absolute, no? God’s wish that we marry is absolute, no?

I agree, by the way, that better counseling would help stem the tide of annulment requests. But only a little, is my guess. The modern Christian world feels very differently about divorce than it used to. Even among Catholics (according to the polls).

 

[PatriceA]

The claim that marriage is not an “absolute right” is what is most curious to me. The marriage sacrament is absolute, no? God’s wish that we marry is absolute, no?

I agree, by the way, that better counseling would help stem the tide of annulment requests. But only a little, is my guess. The modern Christian world feels very differently about divorce than it used to. Even among Catholics (according to the polls).

IMO, marriage is not an absolute. One should give as much consideration to entering the religious life, or if they are called to live a chaste single life, as they do if they are being called to marriage. AND its not an absolute that the person you think you want to marry is actually the person you should marry. People can make the wrong choice in a marriage partner, that is why the Pope has spoken on this topic. It needs to be addressed some way some how by the Church that sometimes a couple does need to hear that they are not a good match for the sacrament of matrimony.

 

[larkin31]

IMO, marriage is not an absolute. One should give as much consideration to entering the religious life, or if they are called to live a chaste single life, as they do if they are being called to marriage. AND its not an absolute that the person you think you want to marry is actually the person you should marry. People can make the wrong choice in a marriage partner, that is why the Pope has spoken on this topic. It needs to be addressed some way some how by the Church that sometimes a couple does need to hear that they are not a good match for the sacrament of matrimony.

Interesting. Thanks.

Would a priest likely be able to tell this? With half of marriages ending in divorce, how many would priests be willing to deny? How many did priests deny, say, 100 years ago?

 

[poker10]

Priests are not “on call 24/7”. That is something we need to understand.

Having said that Elizabeth502 provides a solid idea for working this through.

As for lawsuits, some may try but they will fail as the Church is a private institution and has a right to dictate its rules. The Church is not stopping a married, just not allowing it to be a Church marriage.

You’re right, they are not on call 24/7 for anything and everything, but can be called for emergencies.

Anyone can file a lawsuit for anything, so the Church may have to spend time and money defending themselves.

 

[Dale_M]

Anyone can file a lawsuit for anything, so the Church may have to spend time and money defending themselves.

Not necessarily. In the US, at least, frivolous lawsuits are dismissed out of hand. I am not aware of any nation which obligates a church to provide a religious ceremony to anyone who requests such a ceremony.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

It needs to be addressed some way some how by the Church that sometimes a couple does need to hear that they are not a good match for the sacrament of matrimony.

For the parish priest to be able to make such a judgment would require detailed interviews with the couple, with their parents, siblings, and friends, and the the priest would have to have the counseling expertise to make the judgment.

I think that few priests are able to do this, if for no other reason but the press of their other duties. If the diocese had a special group that would do this, then they too would have to go through all the interviewing, etc., etc. How many dioceses have the resources to do this for every Catholic couple planning marriage? Few, if any, I think.