Pope: Marriage is not an absolute right

[larkin31]

Not necessarily. In the US, at least, frivolous lawsuits are dismissed out of hand. I am not aware of any nation which obligates a church to provide a religious ceremony to anyone who requests such a ceremony.

Indeed, they do not. My father (liberal Protestant minister) turned people down. He turned heteros and gays down, for a variety of reasons.

 

[poker10]

For the parish priest to be able to make such a judgment would require detailed interviews with the couple, with their parents, siblings, and friends, and the the priest would have to have the counseling expertise to make the judgment.

I think that few priests are able to do this, if for no other reason but the press of their other duties. If the diocese had a special group that would do this, then they too would have to go through all the interviewing, etc., etc. How many dioceses have the resources to do this for every Catholic couple planning marriage? Few, if any, I think.

Totally agree. The logistics of doing this would be just too much, it seems. What would happen if churches suddenly started turning away 20, 30, or 40 percent of couples seeking to get married? Do they just go to another Catholic church…or a non-Catholic one? What happens if a couple that was turned down remains married for 10 years and wants the Church’s blessing? Do they go through the process again even though they’ve been married a decade?

Lots of questions.

 

[PatriceA]

For the parish priest to be able to make such a judgment would require detailed interviews with the couple, with their parents, siblings, and friends, and the the priest would have to have the counseling expertise to make the judgment.

I think that few priests are able to do this, if for no other reason but the press of their other duties. If the diocese had a special group that would do this, then they too would have to go through all the interviewing, etc., etc. How many dioceses have the resources to do this for every Catholic couple planning marriage? Few, if any, I think.

I agree. All I’m saying is that it is a huge problem that needs to be addressed some way, some how by the Church. Sometimes the priest has never even met either of the couple until they make an appointment to see the priest, and sometimes that doesn’t even happen until the couple has already booked the reception hall. Many couples have it backwards, reception, invitations, dress first…booking the Church last.

I was extremely blessed. I had an older couple that mentored me when I worked in youth ministry that were married for close to 50 years before I got engaged. They witnessed their marriage to me everytime I visited with them. I picked their brains about relationships and how to live out the sacrament of matrimony. It wasn’t uncommon to be over at their house and have a priest from anywhere in the diocese drop in for a visit. This particular couple mentored many engaged couples or even ones thinking about getting married, and sometimes advised couples that maybe they weren’t meant to be.

Maybe the answer is for a place for couples that are seriously discerning marriage to seek out advice and guidance from older married couples within the Church. Especially in this age of divorces being the norm, I wonder how many couples thinking about getting married feel they are all alone and haven’t a clue just what the sacrament of matrimony really means.

 

[sidbrown]

Pope Benedict XVI told priests Saturday to do a better job counseling would-be spouses to ensure their marriages last and said no one has an absolute right to a wedding.

This brings up the question as to whether a Catholic priest has the absolute right to refuse to marry whomever he wants?

 

[catharina]

This brings up the question as to whether a Catholic priest has the absolute right to refuse to marry whomever he wants?

My understanding is that priests do have that right
and that priests have always had that right.
Marriage is a Sacrament.

My own instinct says something like this:

in marriage-prep classes, where each couple has alone-time with a priest,
the priest should question them regarding the essence of CATHOLIC MARRIAGE.

For example,
Is there a firm willingness to adhere to Church teaching re rejection of contraception?
Is there a commitment to raising any children as Catholics?
etc., etc., and so forth.

Certainly I recall that as my classmates and I were preparing to receive
our first Holy Commuion, in the 1950s, each of us was REQUIRED to memorize
sections of the Baltimore Catechism and explain those teachings to the priests.

We were six, seven, eight yrs old.
Yes - we complied!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

You’re right, they are not on call 24/7 for anything and everything, but can be called for emergencies.

Not all priests are on-call for emergencies. Not all priests are pastors of a parish. Even then a group of pastors usually get together and work out an on-call schedule so that they are not always on-call 24/7.

That is just a widely held misconception of the laity. One that I think harms vocations.

But that is off topic and maybe you should start a new thread if you wish to discuss this further.

 

[manualman]

Can. 1058 All persons who are not prohibited by law can contract marriage.

Unless there’s some kind of impediment that can be shown/proven then its a giant headache to deny someone the sacrament…

Great point, that many folks here seem to be ignoring. I don’t see where Benedict is calling for priests to REFUSE couple marriage, but rather to better educate them. Try this:

Priest - “OK, I’ve got to have a blunt conversation with you both here. I’ve gotten to know you both a bit so far and it’s clear to me that you are NOT wanting your wedding here for the pretty pictures that result. Since you both seem to care about God and want him to bless your marriage I need to tell you some hard truths. There really is no such thing as divorce for married catholics, but tens of thousands of catholics every year end up applying for and receiving a declaration of nullity. In other words, they later find out that they never really were sacramentally married. There are certain barriers that simply prevent two people from marrying one another, no matter how pretty the dress, how ardent and solemn the vows, nor how saintly the priest giving the blessing. Unfortunately, I see one (some?) of those barriers in YOUR relationship and it is my duty to make it clear to you how serious those barriers are. I do NOT want to see you two end up alone and miserable in ten years. So here’s what we have to address…”

Yeah, he’ll have a lot of angry walkouts. That doesn’t seem to have stopped Jesus from saying what had to be said though!

 

[barb_finnegan]

Great point, that many folks here seem to be ignoring. I don’t see where Benedict is calling for priests to REFUSE couple marriage, but rather to better educate them. Try this:

Priest - “OK, I’ve got to have a blunt conversation with you both here. I’ve gotten to know you both a bit so far and it’s clear to me that you are NOT wanting your wedding here for the pretty pictures that result. Since you both seem to care about God and want him to bless your marriage I need to tell you some hard truths. There really is no such thing as divorce for married catholics, but tens of thousands of catholics every year end up applying for and receiving a declaration of nullity. In other words, they later find out that they never really were sacramentally married. There are certain barriers that simply prevent two people from marrying one another, no matter how pretty the dress, how ardent and solemn the vows, nor how saintly the priest giving the blessing. Unfortunately, I see one (some?) of those barriers in YOUR relationship and it is my duty to make it clear to you how serious those barriers are. I do NOT want to see you two end up alone and miserable in ten years. So here’s what we have to address…”

Yeah, he’ll have a lot of angry walkouts. That doesn’t seem to have stopped Jesus from saying what had to be said though!

Good point, manualman! Heck, I’m not even married myself, and yet I agree what this ‘priest’ says!

 

[90Domer]

As a member of our Church’s pre-Cana team, I can tell you that many churches do have the lay personnel to run a solid marriage prep program. Sad reality is that it’s often seen as another time commitment–something we just have to get done. Couples tend to take the path of least resistance, which means attending the shortest pre-Cana session available.

 

[Elizabeth502]

As a member of our Church’s pre-Cana team, I can tell you that many churches do have the lay personnel to run a solid marriage prep program. Sad reality is that it’s often seen as another time commitment–something we just have to get done. Couples tend to take the path of least resistance, which means attending the shortest pre-Cana session available.

Indeed. (I knew that, which is why I suggested it.) And I completely agree, as well, with your comment about the path of least resistance. I also think it’s only natural that the most well-meaning priest might tend to cave in to that resistance rather than engage in “battle.” (Because he has so many other battles, some of which might be at the point of raging fires, such as trying to figure out what the heck to do with the parish budget deficit so that yet another lay minister doesn’t have to be removed.)

 

[Malkiamasuku]

I agreed with the pope. I have been married ( civil marriage) for twenty years now. But our marriage has been on the rock with my hubby cheating on me and, emotional and physical abusing me etc…Two years ago we went for marriage preparation course after the course the priest was ready to bless our marriage but i refused because during the course my hubby didn’t acknowledge his wrongdoing, so why should I go a head with the blessing of the marriage just for the sake of being able to take communion?

 

[SamH]

Indeed. (I knew that, which is why I suggested it.) And I completely agree, as well, with your comment about the path of least resistance. I also think it’s only natural that the most well-meaning priest might tend to cave in to that resistance rather than engage in “battle.” (Because he has so many other battles, some of which might be at the point of raging fires, such as trying to figure out what the heck to do with the parish budget deficit so that yet another lay minister doesn’t have to be removed.)

I know that the parish priest we had growing up refused to perform several marriages. One couple (friends of my brother) was living together and wanted to get married. The priest told them they had to live apart for 6 months (while attending marriage prep classes) before he would allow them to marry. Two months later they broke up and refused to speak to each other.

Another couple in our own marriage class was hopeless. After spending one hour with them my wife to be and I both wondered why they were getting married (they were polar opposites and seemed to argue constantly). The priest apparently wondered the same thing and in a group session simply asked each couple to explain why they were getting married. She gave a long thought out answer (that I don’t recall) but his only answer had something to do with how he liked having sex with her and her nice body… She immediately left the room with him following a minute later - we could hear her screaming at him in the parking lot. They never attended another marriage class again - nor did they get married in the Catholic Church.

 

[troutking555]

The problem here people is that many Catholics think the Pope is closer to God than you or I.This my friends is a lie.How on earth can a priest offer counselling to a young couple when he himself is not married.Experience is needed here.What I mean by that is using the bible as the rules for a good marriage.The priest has not experienced marriage.Its like a soccer coach, coaching a team but has never kicked a soccer ball in his life-What kind of coach is he gonna be?You work it out!The problem with the catholic faith is that Jesus is not the centre of your true church.Its the Pope and all your manmade rules and dogma!
Jesus came here to die for us and did just that!!-So why do you need purgatory?Its not in the bible-Hence a man made rule again.When people start listening to man over what the true meaning of the bible is-Your heading for a disaster-Most Catholics believe all people are going to Heaven-That is the biggest lie of them all.This is not true-Why then is there the great commission.Mathew 28 vs 18-20?We can not earn our salvation-Jesus did-He paid the ultimate price for us!!!I Therefore Purgatory is a lie.