Pope: Mass in vernacular helps people understand God, live the faith

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Pope Paul said the same thing 50 years ago in succumbing to the banal vernacular. And have people understood the Mass more?

Yet a few months ago Pope Francis on the 450yr anniversary praised the Trent documents, part of which anathemized anyone proposing the vernacular only Mass.
 
That is an interesting theory. Is this the reason that the church member has swelled, the seminaries are full, the pews are full and those attending the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass have grown so much more faithful and reverent in the years since the mass has been in the vernacular? Just wondering.
Agreed 👍
 
That is an interesting theory. Is this the reason that the church member has swelled, the seminaries are full, the pews are full and those attending the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass have grown so much more faithful and reverent in the years since the mass has been in the vernacular? Just wondering.
The Church and the people were aware that there was already an exodus away from religious worship happening from around the time of WWI. There is always this strange assumption that the Mass change *caused *the exodus when really it brought new life to the Church stemming some of that flow.
 
Jesus preached in the language of the people. Apparently He felt they should be able to understand what was being said.
 
That is an interesting theory. Is this the reason that the church member has swelled, the seminaries are full, the pews are full and those attending the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass have grown so much more faithful and reverent in the years since the mass has been in the vernacular? Just wondering.
One cannot do a cause and effect. despite your sarcasm
 
The Church and the people were aware that there was already an exodus away from religious worship happening from around the time of WWI. There is always this strange assumption that the Mass change *caused *the exodus when really it brought new life to the Church stemming some of that flow.
Actually, a distinctly Catholic diaspora happened.



It’s true the decline began before the OF, but the OF had no effect on stemming the decline.

Note: Edited for clarity.
 
One cannot do a cause and effect. despite your sarcasm
Why not? If people were better understanding God in the past with the non-vernacular than today with the vernacular, then wouldn’t that mean that the non-vernacular is better?
 
Another interesting point is that why did Jesus pray and worship in the non-vernacular instead of the vernacular. Shouldn’t we as his followers follow his example? Doesn’t He know more than us?
 
The Church and the people were aware that there was already an exodus away from religious worship happening from around the time of WWI. There is always this strange assumption that the Mass change *caused *the exodus when really it brought new life to the Church stemming some of that flow.
Actually Mass reforms began in the late 40’s if not before. Abandonment of Latin was perhaps the final blow.

=======================================================
The day the Church abandons her universal tongue [Latin] is the day before she returns to the catacombs.
Pope Pius XII​

The use of the Latin language prevailing in a great part of the Church affords at once an imposing sign of unity and an effective safeguard against the corruptions of true doctrine.
Pope Pius XII, Mediator Dei, 1947, Sec. 60​

 
Pope Paul said the same thing 50 years ago in succumbing to the banal vernacular. And have people understood the Mass more?

Yet a few months ago Pope Francis on the 450yr anniversary praised the Trent documents, part of which anathemized anyone proposing the vernacular only Mass.
First, not all vernacular is banal. Second, Pope Francis is a supporter of the Latin Mass.

“By the celebration of the sacred mysteries according to the extraordinary form of the Roman rite…may [the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter] contribute, in fidelity to the living Tradition of the Church, to a better comprehension and implementation of the Second Vatican Council.” source

On January 12, 2014, Pope Francis celebrated Mass ad orientem. source

On October 31, 2013, Pope Francis celebrated Mass ad orientem. source

During his January, 2015 trip to the Philippines, Pope Francis celebrated Mass in Latin. source

On December 24, 2013, Pope Francis celebrated the traditional Latin Mass. source

See also: Pope Francis Is No Liberal: 24 Examples

I think his most recent comments are merely saying that the reforms of the Second Vatican Council are a good thing, and we shouldn’t undo them. But preserving the Extraordinary Form isn’t undoing the Second Vatican Council, so I think there is good evidence that he supports it.
Why not? If people were better understanding God in the past with the non-vernacular than today with the vernacular, then wouldn’t that mean that the non-vernacular is better?
I don’t think so, I think that would be committing a fallacy known as “post hoc, ergo propter hoc,” i.e. “after this, therefore because of this.” Catholic Answers explains the fallacy here: archive.catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9009fea2.asp

Here’s a selection: REMEMBER THE OLD JOKE that asks what happens when you submerge a body entirely in water? (Answer: The phone rings.) No one really believes that getting into a bathtub makes the phone ring, of course: It’s just an inconvenient coincidence.

But if someone were to argue such a thing, he would be guilty of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy (Latin for “after this, therefore because of this”), which says that because B happened after A, B was caused by A.

Shortly after the United States broke off diplomatic relations with the Vatican, Abraham Lincoln was assassinated. Sensationalistic anti-Catholic writers such as Charles Chiniquy immediately claimed Lincoln was done in by Jesuit agents. (This view is promoted today by Jack Chick and Alberto Rivera.) A was followed by B, so A caused B. Simple, isn’t it?

You will sometimes hear that countries which became Protestant at the time of the Reformation subsequently experienced economic expansion and that Reformation theology was responsible. Since Protestantism brings prosperity, it would be good for all countries to become Protestant.

Even if this were so, should economic prosperity be our measure of theological truth? Should I join the church that tells me “God wants me to be rich” and promises that if I tithe to that church I’ll soon be a millionaire? More importantly, historians increasingly point out that the cause of any one country’s prosperity is an extremely complex matter which can hardly be attributed to the adoption of a creed. In our case, I think the fallacy is applied this way:

The Church was doing good, it allowed the Mass Parts to be said in English (and other languages), and now the Church is doing bad. Clearly, the language is at fault.

But that’s fallacious because it commits the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
 
The Church was doing good, it allowed the Mass Parts to be said in English (and other languages), and now the Church is doing bad.
You know darn well it wasn’t just Part of the Mass to be allowed in the vulgar, though Vatican II politely called it the vernacular. We really don’t have true vernaculars, just national languages which most aren’t particularly scholared with.

There was also silence in the Mass and that’s been lost too. I guess the thought of losing the mystery surrounding the Mass never entered the equation?

Or maybe you’re suggesting some reverse psychology at work here? You never know, they originally only expected about 5K Papal twitters in Latin and today you have over 330k, more than in German, Polish, or Arabic.
 
Actually, a distinctly Catholic diaspora happened.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/nxuhin33gekzknj4nwnwpw.gif

It’s true the decline began before the OF, but the OF had no effect on stemming the decline.

Note: Edited for clarity.
That graph is pretty simple, but since the vernacular didn’t come in until 72 in the US, which seems to be the reference in the graph, the steepest decline occurred before the vernacular even arrived then slowed quite a bit afterwards.
 
Another interesting point is that why did Jesus pray and worship in the non-vernacular instead of the vernacular. Shouldn’t we as his followers follow his example? Doesn’t He know more than us?
Then we should worship in Hebrew.
 
That graph is pretty simple, but since the vernacular didn’t come in until 72 in the US, which seems to be the reference in the graph, the steepest decline occurred before the vernacular even arrived then slowed quite a bit afterwards.
The ICEL lobbied Vatican II for the English and it was immediately put into the 64 Missal to be used at the discretion of the bishops and priests. I believe they collected royalties from their own version shortly thereafter, even before the New Mass was implemented.
 
Why not? If people were better understanding God in the past with the non-vernacular than today with the vernacular, then wouldn’t that mean that the non-vernacular is better?
There are a number of social changes at the same time. A rebellion against anything organized, government and religion.
The same is happening today. Statics show that this current generation rejects the same and leave not just the Church but all organized religions. The language that the celebration is celebrated in make no difference.
Our challenge is not the language of the mass, but bringing people to Christ. These type of discussions do not good in that effort.
Another interesting point is that why did Jesus pray and worship in the non-vernacular instead of the vernacular. Shouldn’t we as his followers follow his example? Doesn’t He know more than us?
??? The language of the day was Greek, Latin and Aramaic. We don’t know if Jesus spoke in one or all three, Either way it was in the vernacular of the day.
 
As a convert, I can say that if I didn’t understand what was being said, I would not have converted. Heck, I would have totally overlooked Catholicism. I’m a need to know type of person and well, they wouldn’t like it if I stood up and started asking what was going on in the middle of Mass.😊

Now, it would be neat to learn Latin, but when I was going through the process of finding the church for me, Latin would have totally intimidated me and I would have stayed away.
 
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