Pope may have 'exorcised' ill man, say experts

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Or perhaps the child has severe seizures and went into one at an inopportune moment? The noise, sounds, and meeting the Pope might have triggered it.
 
sennincatholic said:
The Vatican does not say he did not.The vatican also doesnt say he did.
Fr Lombardi was being very cautious so that people should not misinteprete the pope’s actions.After all the pope was indeed praying for that person and the prayer could lead to anything God wanted it to lead to.
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This seems pretty clear to me:

When Pope Francis solemnly laid both hands on the head of a young man in a wheelchair and prayed intently over him for several minutes, he was not performing an exorcism, said the Vatican spokesman.
 
He must have performed an exorcism on the girl sitting next to the possessed person as well if the media wants to go via that logic. His actions were consistent on both of them. I’m sure he also shakes hands prior to an exorcism like he did in this case. I cant believe this is even a story. They are clearly all in wheelchairs and have some sort of physical ailment and he was blessing them.
 
Lucky7 said:
That’s weird. I thought this thread was closed.
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I did not mean to disobay the rules, I simply thought I should further elaborate on what the moderator had posted. Pope Francis most likely did not perform an exorcism in that that was his intention nor did he do a formal exorcism, but the prayer he said could have had the effect of an exorcism.
 
Arturo_Ortiz said:
I did not mean to disobay the rules, I simply thought I should further elaborate on what the moderator had posted. Pope Francis most likely did not perform an exorcism in that that was his intention nor did he do a formal exorcism, but the prayer he said could have had the effect of an exorcism.
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The moderator may have opened it again. You wouldn’t have been able to post if it were closed. You did nothing wrong. 😉
 
Lucky7 said:
This seems pretty clear to me:

When Pope Francis solemnly laid both hands on the head of a young man in a wheelchair and prayed intently over him for several minutes, he was not performing an exorcism, said the Vatican spokesman.
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👍👍
 
Ok guys, let’s not say it was “anointing of the sick”. That is a Sacrament with a very specific rite.

Exorcism is not a Sacrament, but a rite, in its “solemn” form. Otherwise, it just means a prayer in which someone with authority commands the devil to depart from a person or place. It is commonly done, for instance, during Baptism (for the salt, for the person), when we have a medal of St. Benedict blessed according to the Benedictine form, when we are blessing Holy Water in accordance with the traditional form, etc. It is not a big deal at all if a priest properly authorized or any bishop says a short prayer asking for a person to be delivered from any bother of the evil one, or telling the devil to depart from that person. Not a big deal at all.

We must keep in mind what the Holy See stated: “The Holy Father had no intention of performing an exorcism”. This means that the Pope simply intended to bless the person (which clearly also aims to driving away the influence of the devil, but does not directly address him). If the effects were somewhat similar, that’s a different story - the Holy See spoke of the Pope’s intention, not of the effect…not even of whether it ended up being a simple exorcism in the end despite the Pope’s original intentions.

In the end I really don’t think it was a bid deal at all 🤷
 
I beg to differ.

Exorcism is indeed a sacrament. Have a look at the CCC 1673.

Oddly, I have just finished reading through Gabriele Amorth’s book “An exorcist tells his story”. On page 43 he describes prayers of deliverance which anyone can do. He goes on to say “To increase the effectiveness of this Christ-given power and to guard the faithful from magicians and charlatans, the Church instituted a specific sacramental, exorcism. It can be administered exclusively by bishops and by those priests (therefore, never by lay persons) who have received specific and direct licence to exorcise”. For those interested he he mentions canons 1166, 1167 and 1172.

The normal wording of an exorcism is laid down in the Ritual. Given the circumstances of this meeting and the limited time available I would suggest that we listen to the Vatican – the sacrament of exorcism was not performed. However as R_C suggests, there was time for (a pretty potent!) prayer of deliverance to be given.

AndyP
 
AndyP said:
I beg to differ.

Exorcism is indeed a sacrament. Have a look at the CCC 1673.

Oddly, I have just finished reading through Gabriele Amorth’s book “An exorcist tells his story”. On page 43 he describes prayers of deliverance which anyone can do. He goes on to say “To increase the effectiveness of this Christ-given power and to guard the faithful from magicians and charlatans, the Church instituted a specific sacramental, exorcism. It can be administered exclusively by bishops and by those priests (therefore, never by lay persons) who have received specific and direct licence to exorcise”. For those interested he he mentions canons 1166, 1167 and 1172.

The normal wording of an exorcism is laid down in the Ritual. Given the circumstances of this meeting and the limited time available I would suggest that we listen to the Vatican – the sacrament of exorcism was not performed. However as R_C suggests, there was time for (a pretty potent!) prayer of deliverance to be given.

AndyP
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I thought the Church only had 7 sacraments 🤷
 
It is being reported that the boy in question had an exorcism by a leading roman exorcist. It was ascertained that he had 4 different demons.

Either way. I love that we have a Pope who speaks so freely of the devil and brings that aspect to light. Far too many have ignored our greatest adversary. Honestly, exorcism or not, any demonic powers crippled underneath the Popes hands!

Some criticism of the Pope implies that he is not concerned about form. Well, it would not suprise me in the least if he said a prayer of exorcism. Pope francis is on record as having performed them in the past.

I am under the impression that an “exorcism” does not have to be a whole litany of prayers. It can be quite simple. And the Pope surely has authority to do this. Pope francis reminds me more and more of what it means to be the successor to Peter. I would not be surprised if demons feared his spiritual power more than anything on earth.
As for what the vatican says did or did not happen…
Since the moment Francis was elected they have been seemingly trying to downplay his style. I say, let the mans words, actions and deeds speak for themselves.
 
AndyP said:
I beg to differ.

Exorcism is indeed a sacrament. Have a look at the CCC 1673.

Oddly, I have just finished reading through Gabriele Amorth’s book “An exorcist tells his story”. On page 43 he describes prayers of deliverance which anyone can do. He goes on to say “To increase the effectiveness of this Christ-given power and to guard the faithful from magicians and charlatans, the Church instituted a specific sacramental, exorcism. It can be administered exclusively by bishops and by those priests (therefore, never by lay persons) who have received specific and direct licence to exorcise”. For those interested he he mentions canons 1166, 1167 and 1172.

The normal wording of an exorcism is laid down in the Ritual. Given the circumstances of this meeting and the limited time available I would suggest that we listen to the Vatican – the sacrament of exorcism was not performed. However as R_C suggests, there was time for (a pretty potent!) prayer of deliverance to be given.

AndyP
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Exorcism is a sacramental, not a sacrament.

From the CCC:
Various forms of sacramentals

(snip)

1673 When the Church asks publicly and authoritatively in the name of Jesus Christ that a person or object be protected against the power of the Evil One and withdrawn from his dominion, it is called exorcism. Jesus performed exorcisms and from him the Church has received the power and office of exorcizing. In a simple form, exorcism is performed at the celebration of Baptism. the solemn exorcism, called “a major exorcism,” can be performed only by a priest and with the permission of the bishop. the priest must proceed with prudence, strictly observing the rules established by the Church. Exorcism is directed at the expulsion of demons or to the liberation from demonic possession through the spiritual authority which Jesus entrusted to his Church. Illness, especially psychological illness, is a very different matter; treating this is the concern of medical science. Therefore, before an exorcism is performed, it is important to ascertain that one is dealing with the presence of the Evil One, and not an illness.
 
markomalley said:
Exorcism is a sacramental, not a sacrament.

From the CCC:
Various forms of sacramentals

(snip)

1673 When the Church asks publicly and authoritatively in the name of Jesus Christ that a person or object be protected against the power of the Evil One and withdrawn from his dominion, it is called exorcism. Jesus performed exorcisms and from him the Church has received the power and office of exorcizing. In a simple form, exorcism is performed at the celebration of Baptism. the solemn exorcism, called “a major exorcism,” can be performed only by a priest and with the permission of the bishop. the priest must proceed with prudence, strictly observing the rules established by the Church. Exorcism is directed at the expulsion of demons or to the liberation from demonic possession through the spiritual authority which Jesus entrusted to his Church. Illness, especially psychological illness, is a very different matter; treating this is the concern of medical science. Therefore, before an exorcism is performed, it is important to ascertain that one is dealing with the presence of the Evil One, and not an illness.
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Flying in 5 hours late.😉
Andy corrected himself.
Poor Andy, makes one mistake and is pounded for it. Welcome to the forums Andy!
It only gets:takethat: worse from here!
 
russet1 said:
Flying in 5 hours late.😉
Andy corrected himself.
Poor Andy, makes one mistake and is pounded for it. Welcome to the forums Andy!
It only gets:takethat: worse from here!
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I’m sorry Andy if my quote was taken as pounding you… I just never heard that it was a sacrament… Thanks for clearing it up for me. May God bless you!
 
russet1 said:
Flying in 5 hours late.😉
Andy corrected himself.
Poor Andy, makes one mistake and is pounded for it. Welcome to the forums Andy!
It only gets:takethat: worse from here!
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Fraternal correction is pounding?

Wow.
 
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