Pope meets Irish bishops on child abuse scandal

[KC91]

For an example, Sinead O’Connor was at it again this month, saying Jesus would burn down the Vatican if he came back today and this got tons of media attention and discussion. If we replace the Vatican with Mecca, you can bet it wouldn’t have made the last page.

If she said Mecca it would get media attention but no discussion - virtual condemnation and fatwas from Iran, etc

 

[KC91]

She has already incurred latae sententiae excommunication through her illegal ordination by a schismatic group.

 

[Brickmaker]

Isn’t the Eucharistic Congress being held in Ireland in 2012?

How do you think that will affect the situation?

 

[Dewdropdeb]

Isn’t the Eucharistic Congress being held in Ireland in 2012?

How do you think that will affect the situation?

There’s already issues there as the government has offered funding. The very broke government who can barely pay for it’s own healthcare. There has already been a lot of upset about it and I suspect there will be more not to mention protests at the actual event. I have to say even I was bothered by this one. One day I read the Ryan report the next day I read that our government is paying for the same guys to have a nice little conference. The church needs to pay for this baby themselves.

 

[KC91]

The Church has lost a lot of money in the economic crisis so it would definetly be in the Church’s interests if the faifthul in governments are willing to help pay the bill.

 

[KC91]

A Eucharistic Congress would not be that expensive compared with a Papal visit. Given the secularist tyranny in many parts of the world right now it’s a comfort to know that in some places Caesar is paying respect to the Body of Christ.

 

[Dewdropdeb]

Agreed completely. I tithe the church and I pay my taxes, I don’t expect the two to cross over. The amount the government has already spent an obscene amount of money investigating the wide spread abuse and will continue to spend as our courts and police continue the process.

Healthcare is a shambles and education is not that far behind, I’d rather see the money spent there. I recently had to wait over 6 months to have a breast lump even checked on. It was only when I finally contacted my TD ( think congressman) and had my case mentioned in the Dail (parliament/congress) that I finally got an appointment in St. Vincent’s. If it had have been cancer, I could have been dead in that six months. Yet we want to spend money on a church event? I think not. But hopefully there’ll be an election before then and we can kick these idiots out!

 

[Brickmaker]

Thanks for the info.

If the Pope were to cancel the Congress or move it elsewhere, what do you think the reaction would be in Ireland? Would anyone care?

 

[Brickmaker]

That’s sad but understandable. Perhaps it would be better to cancel the Congress. I know that would be tough on the older generation of Catholics in Ireland but I’d hate to see such a sacred event become the focus of protest and anger.

 

[KC91]

Public opinion isn’t that important. The Church isn’t and won’t be a democracy like many countries are. If the Church listened to public opinion heresy would be flourishing.

I am grateful to the Irish government for paying the bill for the abuse, etc as the Church is thus spared losing hundreds of millions of dollars. God bless that non-secularist government!

 

[Brickmaker]

I expect it’s the Irish taxpayer not the Irish government that is paying the cost of the abuse reports and the compensation to those abused in institutions - governments don’t usually have revenue apart from taxation. You may be grateful to the Irish government for sparing the Church’s millions but I doubt that your opinion is shared by the hard-pressed taxpayer (especially those who are not Catholic) in recession-hit Ireland. In justice, and especially if it has all those hundreds of millions you claim, the institutional Church should be shouldering the bulk of the financial burden brought about by the horrific acts perpetrated by its clergy and religious. Why should it be someone else’s responsibility?

 

[Dewdropdeb]

Public opinion isn’t that important. The Church isn’t and won’t be a democracy like many countries are. If the Church listened to public opinion heresy would be flourishing.

I am grateful to the Irish government for paying the bill for the abuse, etc as the Church is thus spared losing hundreds of millions of dollars. God bless that non-secularist government!

Sure I love my tax money going to pedophiles and the sick mess they’ve caused. GET REAL. How could you even suggest such a thing? They got themselves into this mess, they can get themselves out.

Edit: Sorry, as someone who was sexually abused as a child (outside the church) I get very angry when I see people dismiss such atrocities. These men are sick and evil and that should not be forgotten. Furthermore the systematic cover-up and re-placement of them WITH CHILDREN is in my eyes just as atrocious. I love my Faith, but I cannot excuse such behaviour and I will not support it at all financially or otherwise. Sorry if I came across as rude, it just made me angry as it sounded as if you were totally blowing off the seriousness of the issue. I suspect if it was one of your children affected you would not dismiss things so lightly.

 

[Brickmaker]

Sure I love my tax money going to pedophiles and the sick mess they’ve caused. GET REAL. How could you even suggest such a thing? They got themselves into this mess, they can get themselves out.

Edit: Sorry, as someone who was sexually abused as a child (outside the church) I get very angry when I see people dismiss such atrocities. These men are sick and evil and that should not be forgotten. Furthermore the systematic cover-up and re-placement of them WITH CHILDREN is in my eyes just as atrocious. I love my Faith, but I cannot excuse such behaviour and I will not support it at all financially or otherwise. Sorry if I came across as rude, it just made me angry as it sounded as if you were totally blowing off the seriousness of the issue. I suspect if it was one of your children affected you would not dismiss things so lightly.

Er…Surely the money is going to victims by way of compensation and to pay for therapy etc and not to the pedophiles??? Why would it go to pedophiles??

But I agree, the Irish taxpayer should not have to foot the bill. The institutional Church is not impoverished and I’m sure that the Irish Church has considerable assets in real estate throughout its parochial system that it could sell off to meet the costs.

 

[Dewdropdeb]

Of course it’s not going to them (although you should read up on our prison system, I’ve stayed at worse hotels) it’s going towards damage control because of them. If the church hadn’t covered things up, the priests would have been tackled individually criminally and perhaps civilly, but no, they chose to cover it up so now the entire body of the church suffers. It’s so tragic.

 

[Brickmaker]

Of course it’s not going to them (although you should read up on our prison system, I’ve stayed at worse hotels)** it’s going towards damage control **because of them. If the church hadn’t covered things up, the priests would have been tackled individually criminally and perhaps civilly, but no, they chose to cover it up so now the entire body of the church suffers. It’s so tragic.

What kind of damage control? How is compensating victims and paying for psychiatric care damage control? I would consider it a work of justice which is why I would want the Church’s assets to pay for it. Has the Church in Ireland paid any compensation to victims? It’s difficult at this remove to get a real handle on the situation.

 

[Dewdropdeb]

No you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. Of course they should receive compensation, my point is that I should not have to pay for it. The church has plenty of assets, here and abroad that could be liquidised to pay for it. Innocent bystanders should not have to open their wallets.

The drama continues: slate.com/id/2247861

Of particular interest:

Very much more serious is the role of Joseph Ratzinger, before the church decided to make him supreme leader, in obstructing justice on a global scale. After his promotion to cardinal, he was put in charge of the so-called “Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith” (formerly known as the Inquisition). In 2001, Pope John Paul II placed this department in charge of the investigation of child rape and torture by Catholic priests. In May of that year, Ratzinger issued a confidential letter to every bishop. In it, he reminded them of the extreme gravity of a certain crime. But that crime was the reporting of the rape and torture. The accusations, intoned Ratzinger, were only treatable within the church’s own exclusive jurisdiction. Any sharing of the evidence with legal authorities or the press was utterly forbidden. Charges were to be investigated “in the most secretive way … restrained by a perpetual silence … and everyone … is to observe the strictest secret which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office … under the penalty of excommunication.” (My italics). Nobody has yet been excommunicated for the rape and torture of children, but exposing the offense could get you into serious trouble. And this is the church that warns us against moral relativism! (See, for more on this appalling document, two reports in the London Observer of April 24, 2005, by Jamie Doward.)

 

[KC91]

(especially those who are not Catholic)

Considering that for hundreds of years under the Penal laws Irish Catholics’ money have had to go to pay for the British Protestant state church, this is simply justice.

 

[Dewdropdeb]

Considering that for hundreds of years under the Penal laws Irish Catholics’ money have had to go to pay for the British Protestant state church, this is simply justice.

I’m really beginning to think you’re a bit nuts.

 

[KC91]

How? The Irish Catholic Church and it’s faithful have been out of power for hundreds of years, and it is only right that they should have their turn at power.

 

[Dewdropdeb]

I suppose the same could be said of the Druids then?

This is not about power, the fact is, a church should not hold power over a sovereign nation, that’s not right and has caused nothing but trouble since it’s inception. There are plenty of very Irish protestants too. As alluded too earlier in this discussion, you seem to have a romanticised and very misinformed view of things in Ireland. It’s not all protestant vs. Catholic anymore, one could argue that it never really was.

I used to get so frustrated when I lived in the US. People would think the IRA was a good thing (when in reality they have reigned terror on this nation, irrespective of religion in the name of so-called nationalism for longer than Al Quida.) and have Sinn Fein poster because they have Irish heritage, where in reality they had absolutely no clue what that really meant.

You keep talking about power and that’s kind of scary to me. Only God has power not man. A false view of power is whats gotten us into this mess in the first place. Forcing our view of God’s will on others is not the way to win people over and history has shown it does quite the opposite.