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petra22
Guest
I think that’s great. After all these years and supposedly still occurring, surely by now they (the hierarchy) could tell if it is a fake…???
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Church_Militant
Guest
Hopefully we’ll see. It wouldn’t bum me out if it was approved. I’ve read a good bit about it.
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M-Dent
Guest
I can’t see how the events in Medjugorje will be deemed of supernatural origin. I would expect things will continue along the same path – in that, it cannot be affirmed that one is dealing with an authentic supernatural event. Yet, since so many pilgrims visit the Holy See will promote the emphasis of providing spiritual care for pilgrims.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
Medjugorje is doing just fine without the Church’s official approval. But the Church keeps coming in and out of Medjugorje.
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PaulfromIowa
Guest
The local bishops have spoken, repeatedly.I think that’s great. After all these years and supposedly still occurring, surely by now they (the hierarchy) could tell if it is a fake…???
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PaulfromIowa
Guest
Note that this envoy is only to study the pastoral situation there.
The 74-year-old prelate has been entrusted with the mission “of acquiring a deeper knowledge of the pastoral situation there and above all, of the needs of the faithful who go there in pilgrimage, and on the basis of this, to suggest possible pastoral initiatives for the future,” the Secretariat of State said in a February 11 statement. “The mission will therefore have an exclusively pastoral character.”
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Polycarp1
Guest
It may well be supernatural but if so the question then has to be is it of God or demonic.I can’t see how the events in Medjugorje will be deemed of supernatural origin. I would expect things will continue along the same path – in that, it cannot be affirmed that one is dealing with an authentic supernatural event. Yet, since so many pilgrims visit the Holy See will promote the emphasis of providing spiritual care for pilgrims.
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M-Dent
Guest
I am confident demonic activity would be discerned by the competent authorities. Technically, supernatural events are only proper to God Himself. The devils actions, if allowed by God - would be preternatural and the long term fruits would show themselves evil.It may well be supernatural but if so the question then has to be is it of God or demonic.
C
commenter
Guest
How would they know they are “doing just fine”? Every branch of Protestantism would also claim they are doing just fine without the Church’s approval. The National Catholic Reporter would say the same thing. So would the Remnant. The local bishop has responsibility to discern if any activity is “fine”. The current bishop, and the previous one, have made their position known.Medjugorje is doing just fine without the Church’s official approval. But the Church keeps coming in and out of Medjugorje.
The Vatican has a responsibility to people who go there. Thus, this envoy for pastoral care. The appointment of this envoy is not a support, nor a doubting, of the apparition/messages.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
The Vatican has no more responsibility in Medjugorje than it does in my backyard grotto. The bishops have washed their hands of it.
C
commenter
Guest
How many options are there?
Supernatural from God.
Nothing supernatural.
Demonic.
Any more?
- An event might be supernatural in origin - say for 3 years - then carry on, simply by human, well meaning momentum after all supernatural influence ended; the reverse is also possible.
- An event might be partly supernatural - one of the visionaries is guided, but others are not;
- An event with “nothing supernatural” could have multiple options, depending on motivation, obedience to proper Church authority, and effects.
I wonder about the people who live within, say, 25 or 50 miles. Is the rate of Mass attendance, Confessions, or evidence of spiritual and corporal works of mercy among ****those ****people higher than it was prior to 1980? How are the nearby parishes doing, the ones not visited by pilgrims but which doubtless include many people who interact with the people who live close to the shrine? What are vocations like among people who grew up in that diocese since this all began?
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Jared2914
Guest
In a place where thousands or even millions of pilgrims are visiting every year, I think the Church would want to make sure the local parish and clergy are handling everything well. There’s nothing abnormal about that to me. I am excited to see what the Church decides about Medjugorje though. I don’t think they will release their findings until the visionaries have all stopped receiving messages. Whether that is in a few years or not until the visionaries have all past away, we need to be patient. It might not even be in our lifetimes.
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petra22
Guest
I just saw and heard yesterday from a Medjugorje site that the local clergy is very welcoming of the Papal envoy for the faithful…In a place where thousands or even millions of pilgrims are visiting every year, I think the Church would want to make sure the local parish and clergy are handling everything well. There’s nothing abnormal about that to me. I am excited to see what the Church decides about Medjugorje though. I don’t think they will release their findings until the visionaries have all stopped receiving messages. Whether that is in a few years or not until the visionaries have all past away, we need to be patient. It might not even be in our lifetimes.
C
commenter
Guest
With private revelations,In a place where thousands or even millions of pilgrims are visiting every year, I think the Church would want to make sure the local parish and clergy are handling everything well. There’s nothing abnormal about that to me. I am excited to see what the Church decides about Medjugorje though. I don’t think they will release their findings until the visionaries have all stopped receiving messages. Whether that is in a few years or not until the visionaries have all past away, we need to be patient. It might not even be in our lifetimes.
- “The Church” makes its final determination through the person of the bishop-ordinary of that place.
- ****Only ****if the local bishop says “yes”, it becomes a locally approved site, for consideration by the persons who live there.
- Rarely, as in Fatima, the Vatican will examine a locally approved apparition/revelation and maybe recommend it for consideration by all the faithful.
Whenever people disagree with the Church, they tend to say "Well, if lots of people disagree, that means that decision was only provisional, the Church has not made its FINAL DECISION, therefore that decision about X should not affect our present actions.
The Church is trying to ensure proper pastoral care for a place where thousands of Catholics are now going. Likewise, if a state university opens a new campus in a remote location where thousands of Catholics choose to attend, the Church would need to respond to that changed situation as well. That does not reflect approval, or disapproval, of public universities.
This does not mean the Church is reviewing the bishop-ordinary’s determination about any supernatural character of private revelations. If lots and **lots **of people travel to Medjugorje, that does not increase the possibility that Mary actually speaks or spoke there.
My worries go up when I read or hear “Well the Church has not made it ******final ********decision **on X, Y, or Z” so we can then ignore this or that decision or determination by the Church.
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