Pope on Abortion

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sadie2723

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Recently, the Pope took a pretty clear stance on what should be done with political people that vote for abortion. In his words, the solution was excommunication. I fully support the Pope on this issue, and I was wonderig what we as Catholics can do to get the bishops to follow through with the wishes of the Pope on this one.

Cheers!

Brad
 
Hey, Brad. What are you referring to with regards to the Popes comments/directive?
 
I tottally agree as well, How do you call yourself a Catholic and yet have contradicting stances of the Catholic Church
 
JP2 will always be the Pope I’m most impressed with, but I like this decision. Too many people call themselves Catholic/Christian, but act in accordance to the world and it’s culture of death. It’s about time someone eliminated the hypocrits from the Church. (peacefully I mean)
 
St_Violet said:
I tottally agree as well, How do you call yourself a Catholic and yet have contradicting stances of the Catholic Church
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I agree as well, but you can bet there’s a think tank somewhere considering how to make political hay of any excommunications that come to be.
 
Those who are for abortion have already excommunicated themselves. They are in clear defianceand disobedience to God’s divine will and commandment,"Thou shall not kill."How can a mother even think of killing her own child in her womb ? You call it choice? The choice to kill your very own innocent child?
 
larryhc said:
Those who are for abortion have already excommunicated themselves. They are in clear defianceand disobedience to God’s divine will and commandment,"Thou shall not kill."How can a mother even think of killing her own child in her womb ? You call it choice? The choice to kill your very own innocent child?
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As a person who has had an abortion, let me speak…
Yes what I did was wrong, and I paid for it in a lot of ways.
At the time, I was in my worst sinful state, I was sleeping with a married man and he was the father, he begged me to have the abortion so I did. (Yes it was my decision, i was not pushed, but he left it up to me).
So after all that, doing my worst, and to cut a long story short, Ive finally woken up to myself, come back to the mother church and have prayed to God to forgive me MANY times. I have been to confession countless times and confessed about this. I went on a retreat called the Project Rachel retreat, its for catholics that have had abortions and to help them on the path back to God.
I believe and felt in my heart 100% God himself guided me towards Project Rachel to help me through the hard times and when I was ready to return to the church.
When I (I cant speak for others who have had abortions) had mine, i felt it was the right thing to do, but when i came out of there, i felt the loss instantly, and it was like my heart was ripped out as well. To this day, i still feel like there is something missing in my life. People that do have abortions do pay for what they have done through the pain off loss. You are never the same person after it. And it really does make you hate abortion.
So basically, i dont like abortion at all, i hate it, i dont wish it on anyone. But some people when they do it, they dont know what they are getting themselves into. You are told its ‘just a bunch of cells’ only to come out afterwards and realise it was a life.
Now that im entering into my prime as a catholic, i hope this horrid thing will end. After been through the trap of this sin myself, i will never do it again. I feel now in my heart God has forgiven me, but the thing is, i have not forgiven myself. That weight alone is enough to turn people away from doing it in the first place. I pray the day will come when there is no more abortion.
 
Hi dolphinelove.I feel God’s love so strong in you.Of course, God’s warmth, touch, understanding and forgiveness has changed all of us including myself, a sinner.I guess He looks into our lives
and hearts to see why we do the things we do and the different circumstances we are in.I just want to share with you the thought that God our Father every day gazes into the horizon waiting eagerly and patiently for the return of the prodigal son otherwise how do you explain that it is the Father who runs like crazy towards the wayward child ( and not the other way round). And look at Mary Magdalene (possessed by seven spirits…meaning all kinds of sins ?] What about Jesus saying to the good thief," Today you will be with me in Paradise."? What I am saying is God has given all of us back our dignity as His children when we turn back to Him no matter how grievious or horrendous our past sins. Of course, He wants us to forgive ourselves. His grace will shine through. My thought is that your child is in the arms of the Heavenly Father. The grace of repentance and sorrow can only come from a loving God who embraces us all . That is whyI feel that you have the love of God and your child in your heart. God bless.
 
Hi Larryhc,
They are very kind words. It means a lot to a sinner like me 🙂
Dolphinlove
xx
 
Yep, cause we all know that government should reflect the status of one church, and that it should be the soul arbitar of what is right and moral. cough Frankly, I’d rather leave moral decisions to the Church and not the law, but hey, that’s just me.

Here’s a thought: by allowing the government to legislate morality, you are stating the church should not be the moral authority.

Laws on fornication, abortion, adultry, drugs, homosexuality, and general vice have no place in government - they have every place in the church. It’s because we rely on the government to determine our morality now that we have moral collapse.
 
Note: i have no problem about any church having a stance about sin involved with the doctors, nurses, hospital workers, or the lady getting the abortion - just the politicians.
 
Fate said:
Yep, cause we all know that government should reflect the status of one church, and that it should be the soul arbitar of what is right and moral. cough Frankly, I’d rather leave moral decisions to the Church and not the law, but hey, that’s just me.

Here’s a thought: by allowing the government to legislate morality, you are stating the church should not be the moral authority.

Laws on fornication, abortion, adultry, drugs, homosexuality, and general vice have no place in government - they have every place in the church. It’s because we rely on the government to determine our morality now that we have moral collapse.
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if only it were that easy. ALL laws are an attempt to legislate morality on some level. Theft, fraud, etc. are all things that we agree are “bad”. Those are easy. but what about porn? where do you draw the line between church and state? children ? animals? why ? what about drugs? are there reasons to regulate drug use? should we allow the uninformed public to make their own decisions about “unapproved” prescriptions drugs? if we say it’s up to you whether or not to use heroin how can we regulate the pharmaceutical industry? so now we get into changes in product liability as well as public safety. What about drunk driving? gambling? I want to know how we could as a society have “value neutral” laws that are completely disconnected from anyone’s sense of morality?
 
dolphinlove said:
As a person who has had an abortion, let me speak…
Yes what I did was wrong, and I paid for it in a lot of ways.
At the time, I was in my worst sinful state, I was sleeping with a married man and he was the father, he begged me to have the abortion so I did. (Yes it was my decision, i was not pushed, but he left it up to me).
So after all that, doing my worst, and to cut a long story short, Ive finally woken up to myself, come back to the mother church and have prayed to God to forgive me MANY times. I have been to confession countless times and confessed about this. I went on a retreat called the Project Rachel retreat, its for catholics that have had abortions and to help them on the path back to God.
I believe and felt in my heart 100% God himself guided me towards Project Rachel to help me through the hard times and when I was ready to return to the church.
When I (I cant speak for others who have had abortions) had mine, i felt it was the right thing to do, but when i came out of there, i felt the loss instantly, and it was like my heart was ripped out as well. To this day, i still feel like there is something missing in my life. People that do have abortions do pay for what they have done through the pain off loss. You are never the same person after it. And it really does make you hate abortion.
So basically, i dont like abortion at all, i hate it, i dont wish it on anyone. But some people when they do it, they dont know what they are getting themselves into. You are told its ‘just a bunch of cells’ only to come out afterwards and realise it was a life.
Now that im entering into my prime as a catholic, i hope this horrid thing will end. After been through the trap of this sin myself, i will never do it again. I feel now in my heart God has forgiven me, but the thing is, i have not forgiven myself. That weight alone is enough to turn people away from doing it in the first place. I pray the day will come when there is no more abortion.
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God bless you dolphinlove. I can assure you that you are not the type being referred to by the Holy Father for excommunication. You are the perfect example of God’s love for us. You are sinner, (as are we all), you’ve seen the errors of your ways, you were repentant, and are in communion with the Church and God. Please continue to pass on your findings to those who are currently suffering this horror.

Yours in Christ,

Steven
 
Interesting topic.

I know someone who has had an abortion. My ex-gf from about 7 years ago told me she had one when she was younger. Here it states that abortion carries excommunication.

I’ve also heard that God can forgive you for anything.

So… if one has had an abortion, can they still be a Catholic who is not excommunicated? What would she have to do?

Thanks.

(No, I wasn’t the father… she was on the pill when we dated… way before I came into the church.)
 
dolphinlove wrote:
Now that im entering into my prime as a catholic, i hope this horrid thing will end. After been through the trap of this sin myself, i will never do it again. I feel now in my heart God has forgiven me, but the thing is, i have not forgiven myself.
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I cannot understand what you have gone through.

What I do know is that God has forgiven you. Your unborn child is numbered among the Saints.

Look forward to the day when you will both be re-united 🙂
 
Fate said:
Yep, cause we all know that government should reflect the status of one church, and that it should be the soul arbitar of what is right and moral. cough Frankly, I’d rather leave moral decisions to the Church and not the law, but hey, that’s just me.

Here’s a thought: by allowing the government to legislate morality, you are stating the church should not be the moral authority.

Laws on fornication, abortion, adultry, drugs, homosexuality, and general vice have no place in government - they have every place in the church. It’s because we rely on the government to determine our morality now that we have moral collapse.
Click to expand...
Fate, I think you have it wrong. The Catholic Church tries to legislate morality by educating it’s faithful on morals. Period.

The Catholic Church is simply asking Catholic Politicians to act like Catholic Politicians. You can’t say, “I’m Catholic, and it’s a sin to have an abortion”, and then turn around and say, “An abortion is a woman’s right”.

If the United States (or any other democracy) wants abortions to be legal, they should elect politicians that believe that way. But it’s hypocritical to see guys like John Kerry go to communion and then go to a “Planned Parenthood” rally.
 
Fate said:
Yep, cause we all know that government should reflect the status of one church, and that it should be the soul arbitar of what is right and moral. cough Frankly, I’d rather leave moral decisions to the Church and not the law, but hey, that’s just me.

Here’s a thought: by allowing the government to legislate morality, you are stating the church should not be the moral authority.

Laws on fornication, abortion, adultry, drugs, homosexuality, and general vice have no place in government - they have every place in the church. It’s because we rely on the government to determine our morality now that we have moral collapse.
Click to expand...
Without considering the other issues you listed, abortion MUST be illegal. The state cannot allow murder, it is not a choice to kill, plain and simple. An anti-abortion allow must exist in order to protect the unborn, without it millions of babies may be murdered. The laws must be changed not just for our sake, but for the sake of the unborn.
 
Originally Posted by Fate
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Here’s a thought: by allowing the government to legislate morality, you are stating the church should not be the moral authority…
Click to expand...
No, the very opposite in fact. We ALL have a duty before God to uphold moral laws, particularly those in Public Office who profess to believe in God.

In the UK we more often than not pray at Sunday Mass for those in Public Office that the Lord will guide them. It is contradictory to ask God to guide them then say ‘they should do as they please with no reference to God or His laws’!

It is equally contradictory to say that one believes in the Moral Law then to support things which one knows opposes it :mad:

The Church is quite clear on the issue of abortion. It is quite clear that those who support it are by definition excommunicating themselves. Someone excommunicated should not receive the Blessed Sacrament. That is to heap sacriledge onto apostacy
 
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