Pope on quiet course of moderation, healing

[bones_IV]

How much more of Father Greely’s heterodoxy can we take?

Link

 

[m134e5]

He says conservative Catholics are unhappy with Pope Benedict XVI? I don’t like thinking of it in terms of liberal and conservative- but that’s for another thread. I assume by “conservative” he means those who follow the Church’s teachings and don’t try to change what can’t be changed, and those who like reverent liturgies that inspire rather than clown shows that disgust most Catholics whose faith is truly important to them, so I guess that includes me.

Who says we’re not happy with our pope? There are some who wanted him to tell gays that God hates them. There are some who wanted him to turn back time and pretend Vatican II or the Novus Ordo Missal never happened. I don’t think most “conservative” Catholics wanted that. We just wanted someone with an eye for the liturgy (which, since being pope, he has shown he has- though he can’t change everything everywhere overnight), and we were hoping for someone who would take a stand on moral issues. I’ve made it a point to keep informed on what the pope has been doing over this past year- and I’m very happy with him (like my contentment really matters anyway…). His first encyclical was about love- many of the problems in society boil down to an improper understanding, and an inadequate practice of love. I can think of nothing more timely to write about. The papal liturgies are more reverent and less showy (though I wish the commentators would shut up and let the liturgy speak for itself, but I doubt the Pope has much control over that- he may not even know about it- somehow I doubt he watches the broadcasts of the papal Masses).

In eleven days- April 19th- Pope Benedict XVI will have been the pope for one year. I hoped he would be chosen pope- I prayed for it, though I trusted the Holy Spirit. The day is particularly special to me because also in eleven days, it will have been three years since my Baptism, Confirmation, and First Communion day. Three years and eleven days ago, I knelt over the Baptismal font after the Saints of ages past were called to pray for me, and my soul was washed clean, I was given the gift of the Holy Spirit, and I received the living God- body, blood, soul, and divinity, in the Eucharist. That was the happiest day of my life. One year and eleven days ago, I was in the music building practicing the piano, and came downstairs and overheard one of my friends mention that a new pope had been chosen. She mentioned that he was German- and I couldn’t think of anyone else but Cardinal Ratzinger. I went back to my room as fast as I could, and saw the news- that was one of the happiest days of my life, and God gave me another small gift, by it being on the anniversary of the happiest.

No, I’m sorry Fr. Greely, you are wrong. We are very happy with our Holy Father. Though he is human, and nothing is perfect this side of heaven, he is the chosen instrument of the Holy Spirit to bring the message of the Gospel to the world in our time. He was chosen before time began to shepherd the Church at this time. God cares for His children, and has given us in these dark days a German shepherd to guide us back to Him.

 

[arieh0310]

I think a lot of progressives think that conservatives (for lack of a better term) want a scorched earth policy where heretics are executed and non-Catholics are told they are going straight to hell.

However, I (as a hardcore conservative Catholic) am very pleased with our new Holy Father.

 

[shs-aod]

If you’re really interested in a representative sampling of so-called conservatives who are less than enthusiastic about our present Pope, take a look here:

angelqueen.org/forum/index.php
or here: traditio.com/com.htm

Admittedly, these are more typical of the “rad-trad” movement within Catholicism, but they are as valid as this forum’s representation of a marginally more moderate aspect of Catholic conservativism.

 

[arieh0310]

shs-aod:

If you’re really interested in a representative sampling of so-called conservatives who are less than enthusiastic about our present Pope, take a look here:

angelqueen.org/forum/index.php
or here: traditio.com/com.htm

Admittedly, these are more typical of the “rad-trad” movement within Catholicism, but they are as valid as this forum’s representation of a marginally more moderate aspect of Catholic conservativism.

Oh, come on, these guys are wackos and not indicative of the vast majority conservative Catholics. Traditio actually calls the Eucharist consecrated in a NO mass “Novus Ordo cookies”. How disrepectful of our Lord.

 

[shs-aod]

arieh0310:

Oh, come on, these guys are wackos and not indicative of the vast majority conservative Catholics.

Well, it’s reassuring to note that you grasped my point.

I made it a point to say that they were “admittedly more typical of a radical-traditionalist segment of conservative Catholicism.” At no time, did I assert that they represented a majority viewpoint, but nonetheless a group that has serious issues with the hierarchy of the Church.

Dismissing them as “whackos” may be emotionally fulfilling, but they’re unlikely to spontaneously disappear any more than the dreaded liberal segment of Catholicism.

 

[arieh0310]

shs-aod:

Well, it’s reassuring to note that you grasped my point.

Slow as I am, I did happen to grasp your point, 'though it took several readings.

My point was, why even mention the radical fringes? Just because the Jack Chick crowd is never going away doesn’t mean that they are a “representative sampling of so-called Protestants”

 

[Walking_Home]

I guess Fr. Greely didn’t hear about our Pope stating that the Church needs to break away from those that do not adhere to Catholic doctrine. To me this is pretty good indication that we have a serious Pontiff. He needs to give our Pope a break. He has only been in Pope for a year.

 

[shs-aod]

“Slow as I am, I did happen to grasp your point, 'though it took several readings.”

Sounds like a personal problem…

“My point was, why even mention the radical fringes?”

Why not? Are they not a part of the Catholic conservative movement? Are they not an example of Catholic conservatives who have issues with the authority of The Church? The Pope?

Some posters here have made the point that, as “conservative” Catholics, they are quite happy with the Pope and the exercise of his office. I am merely pointing out a valid exception to the “general rule”. There is obviously some dissent here that tends to divide the “conservative” movement, which likes to present itself as a unified whole within the Church.

"Just because the Jack Chick crowd is never going away doesn’t mean that they are a “representative sampling of so-called Protestants”

Probably not. But since the Jack Chick crowd is hardly considered part of the Catholic conservative movement, what issues they may have with Papal authority are hardly germane or relevant to this discussion.

Wanna’ start another thread on that subject?

 

[arieh0310]

shs-aod:

Sounds like a personal problem…

Using self-deprecating sarcasm as humor must escape you, I won’t try again.

shs-aod:

Why not? Are they not a part of the Catholic conservative movement? Are they not an example of Catholic conservatives who have issues with the authority of The Church? The Pope?

Some posters here have made the point that, as “conservative” Catholics, they are quite happy with the Pope and the exercise of his office. I am merely pointing out a valid exception to the “general rule”. There is obviously some dissent here that tends to divide the “conservative” movement, which likes to present itself as a unified whole within the Church.

I wouldn’t have used them as “a representative sampling of so-called conservatives who are less than enthusiastic about our present Pope” because they (besides being insane) don’t like the pope to begin with, or really any pope that doesn’t label Novus Ordo attendees heretics. Most conservative, orthodox Catholics I know are pleased with B16, but the author of this article seemed to lump us all in with the sedavacanists. Your allusion to those groups was as misleading as Fr Greely’s

shs-aod:

Probably not. But since the Jack Chick crowd is hardly considered part of the Catholic conservative movement, what issues they may have with Papal authority are hardly germane or relevant to this discussion.

Wanna’ start another thread on that subject?

In this instance I am using an anology. You will note that I paraphrased you and replaced “conservative” with “Protestant”. In other words, I was implying that what I wrote had similar reasoning as what you wrote. I am sorry I didn’t make it clear that I knew that Jack Chick wasn’t a part of the Catholic conservative movement.

 

[shs-aod]

arieh0310:

Using self-deprecating sarcasm as humor must escape you, I won’t try again.

You’re under-estimating me, as well as yourself.

In this instance I am using an analogy.

If so, it’s an invalid one. An analogy, by definition, must be germane and relevant, otherwise it “limps”… terribly.

In all honesty, the conservativism that characterizes this forum, in general, is much closer to the thought process of the “rad-trad” movement that you would probably be comfortable with admitting publicly. Much of their reasoning is far more analagous to what I’ve experienced here as compared to forums that might rightfully be described as more “mainstream” or “moderate” in relationship to Catholic dogma.

In relation to anything that slightly resembles a liberal thought-process, we’re worlds apart.

Fair enough?

 

[arieh0310]

shs-aod:

If so, it’s an invalid one. An analogy, by definition, must be germane and relevant, otherwise it “limps”… terribly.

Actually, one definition of analogy is (and I quote Webster):

resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike

The particulars in resemblance are our rationale.

In all honesty, the conservativism that characterizes this forum, in general, is much closer to the thought process of the “rad-trad” movement that you would probably be comfortable with admitting publicly.

If you think the conservatism on this forum resembles traditio.com then you haven’t spent much time on either site. The “conservative thought-processes between traditio and I are worlds apart”

 

[Illini]

F. Greeley’s article is not the first to show surprise at Benedict’s first year as pope. The reason for articles such as these is that their authors cannot believe that conservatives can be and are nice, thoughtful people. They believe all conservatives are mean and want to burn people at the stake.

It was quite amusing to see these columnists show amazement that the so-called *Panzercardinal *could actually write an impressive encyclical on love. Benedict is confounding their expectations, but these columnists can't fathom that *one who holds traditional values and follows the teaching of the Church can still be a thoughtful, reasonable, and good person.* So they explain it away by speculating that he is really a liberal. They just don't get it.

-Illini

 

[bones_IV]

Illini:

F. Greeley’s article is not the first to show surprise at Benedict’s first year as pope. The reason for articles such as these is that their authors cannot believe that conservatives can be and are nice, thoughtful people. They believe all conservatives are mean and want to burn people at the stake.

It was quite amusing to see these columnists show amazement that the so-called *Panzercardinal *could actually write an impressive encyclical on love. Benedict is confounding their expectations, but these columnists can't fathom that *one who holds traditional values and follows the teaching of the Church can still be a thoughtful, reasonable, and good person.* So they explain it away by speculating that he is really a liberal. They just don't get it.

-Illini

They don’t get it. They media and Father Greely just somehow think that good conservative orthodox Catholics are just a bunch of neo-nazis. Father Greely says that the pope is very ‘liberal’. The fact Fr. Greely overlooked is that the pope has condemned homosexuality, abortion, embryonic stem cell research ect. But that doesn’t seem to matter to him. Why this priest is still allowed to be celebrating mass is beyond me. IMHO, he should be excommunicated. Rome will catch with him sooner or later.