No doubt that we are…but this happens a lot more outside the Church then inside the Church. Granted…we need to do everything to bring those inside the Church who do this to justice. But there are PLENTY of kids who are being abused outside the church who get no justice…1 in 4 girls…and 1 in 8 boys. We need to tackle the problem outside the Church as well!Unbelievable. We’re talking about kids being** raped**. This is the “Filth in the Church” that Benedict XVI spoke of.
I would say that the Church has taken some measures to limit the chances of this happening again, but hasn’t done enough to make it extremely unlikely to ever happen again. What the Church has clearly failed to do done is to action against those within our Church who allowed this to continue, and who covered it up by turning a blind eye and moving pedophile priests from parish to parish, knowing full well that the cost of the cover-up was going to be more and more children raped and abused. Unless a clear message that anyone involved in facilitating pedophilia (because that is what knowingly assigning a pedophile priest to a parish is) or covering it up will given to most serious sanctions this Church can give, and handed over to the civil authorities for investigation, then we have not done our duty in protecting the most vulnerable and innocent in our society from heinously evil crimes.I do think the Church has done a lot to try to keep this from happening again; however, I agree that Church response to those involved in the past has fallen short. I think this Pope is a pope of reform and I believe he will tackle this appropriately.
But many within the hierarchy of our Church actively tried to cover abuse carried out by the clergy and knowingly facilitated the continuation of such abuse by turning blind eyes, and then moving priests on to new parishes to abuse others rather than dealing with them. As an institution we created a culture of cover-up of child rape.No doubt that we are…but this happens a lot more outside the Church then inside the Church. Granted…we need to do everything to bring those inside the Church who do this to justice. But there are PLENTY of kids who are being abused outside the church who get no justice…1 in 4 girls…and 1 in 8 boys. We need to tackle the problem outside the Church as well!
I would say that lumping “No married priests” in with those others is a bit unfair. It is completely different from the other matters.The left will turn on the Pope very soon. It’s only a matter of time.
No artificial contraception
No female priests
No married priesthood
No abortion
No gay marriage
I’m not disagreeing that the Church needs to do more especially with repsect to those involved in the cover-ups, but I think it might be a bit unfair to expect this to be extrememly unliklely to happen again. I think that there is always a chance this can happen again (although not on the same scale of course) simply because of our human nature.I would say that the Church has taken some measures to limit the chances of this happening again, but hasn’t done enough to make it extremely unlikely to ever happen again.
You are correct, but I would agree with jay that chances are this Pope isn’t going to change this discipline either.I would say that lumping “No married priests” in with those others is a bit unfair. It is completely different from the other matters.
There is nothing doctrinal about not having married priests (it is simply an internal organisational discipline) and in fact we do already have quite a few married priests who have come over to us from the Anglican and Eastern Churches.
There is nothing in the doctrine of our Church that is opposed to married priests.
I accept that it is not practically possible completely prevent this, so perhaps my choice of phrasing (extremely unlikely) was accurate, but we do need to do all we can (and so far we are a very long off that, too put it mildly) to demonstrate that such heinous evil will never again be permitted to be tolerated, covered-up or left un-dealt with. It needs to be made very clear that anyone (no matter how high up the Church hierarchy) who has facilitated such evil, or covered it up will be dealt with using the most severe sanctions available to the Church, and promptly handed over to the civil authorities, along with all files of evidence the Church has relating to them. At the moment this simply has not happened.I’m not disagreeing that the Church needs to do more especially with repsect to those involved in the cover-ups, but I think it might be a bit unfair to expect this to be extrememly unliklely to happen again. I think that there is always a chance this can happen again (although not on the same scale of course) simply because of our human nature.
That was NOT a defense. What I am saying is that we need to tackle this inside the church as well as outside. Do you think we should not care about the child in the pew whose dad is doing this to her?But many within the hierarchy of our Church actively tried to cover abuse carried out by the clergy and knowingly facilitated the continuation of such abuse by turning blind eyes, and then moving priests on to new parishes to abuse others rather than dealing with them. As an institution we created a culture of cover-up of child rape.
The defence of, “but others are doing this as well” is hardly sufficient any sort of excuse, or justification for what our Church has been guilty of is it, or for failing to properly deal with those who we know to be guilty?
The announcement was quickly dismissed by victims’ advocates as just more talk. “Once again … a top Catholic official says he’s asking another top Catholic official to take action about paedophile priests and complicit bishops,” said Barbara Dorris, an official of Snap, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, a US-based organisation.
SNAP has a vested interest in seeing the scandal overblown and unaddressed. As the Church tackles the issue and the incidents of abuse is reduced exponentially, then those that run SNAP will lose their job. The money sent to this agency is spent on salary and travel primarily. They do not meet the BBB standards for charity because two of the board are also salaried employees.I agree. I think that , after reading the article, one can dismiss SNAP as being serious about working worth the Church on resolving this problem.
What is it that you do not believe?Unbelievable.
Of course we care about children that get abused by those outside the Church. However the fact is that there where those within our Church hierarchy who KNEW about children being abused by our priests and did nothing. In fact it was far worse than doing nothing, there were those within our hierarchy who knew and tried to muzzle the victims and persuade them to say not to pursue it further, and then those same bishops moved the pedophiles to different parishes, therefore setting the pedophile priests up with a fresh supply of innocent victims to abuse.That was NOT a defense. What I am saying is that we need to tackle this inside the church as well as outside. Do you think we should not care about the child in the pew whose dad is doing this to her?
I am sure based on this statement that he this is an issue he wants to see addressed properly, but as far as the mold being broken, I think that has already happened, based on the tremendous strides made in this area over the last ten to fifteen years.. Let’s hope Pope Francis breaks the mould and bravely deal with those in the very top ranks of our Church who are guilty of collusion in this.
Start by defrocking any cardinal or bishop (no matter how senior) who is known to have been guilty of covering up or facilitating child abuse (and there have been some who appear to have been involved in this on a very large scale) or for trying to muzzle the victims. Hand over all files with evidence relating to pedophile activity amongst clergy, or relating to collusion by bishops in such activity, to the civil authorities.What do you want to see done? I never understand what outcome people want to settle this issue.
I completely agree with these recommendations but I wonder if the Vatican does as by having Cardinal Law in Italy he is protected from any punishment from civil authorities?Start by defrocking any cardinal or bishop (no matter how senior) who is known to have been guilty of covering up or facilitating child abuse (and there have been some who appear to have been involved in this on a very large scale) or for trying to muzzle the victims. Hand over all files with evidence relating to pedophile activity amongst clergy, or relating to collusion by bishops in such activity, to the civil authorities.
This evil continued within our Church because there were bishops who turned a blind eye to it and moved the perpetrators around. Unless a clear message is send through the Church hierarchy that anyone (no matter how senior) who facilitates this will be severely dealt with, then we have not safeguarded children from future abuse.
That’s the point…we can also stop it outside the church too. We need to be aware so it doesn’t happen by lay ministers. Also there are lots of warning signs to help with the little girl in the pew too. Also we need to stop the idealistic “well they can be changed”…very seldom does that happen.Of course we care about children that get abused by those outside the Church. However the fact is that there where those within our Church hierarchy who KNEW about children being abused by our priests and did nothing. In fact it was far worse than doing nothing, there were those within our hierarchy who knew and tried to muzzle the victims and persuade them to say not to pursue it further, and then those same bishops moved the pedophiles to different parishes, therefore setting the pedophile priests up with a fresh supply of innocent victims to abuse.
Of course there is child abuse outside of our Church, but the fact is that, there were many within our Church hierarchy who knew the names of those involved, who knew what there doing, and who not only did nothing, but helped them continue with their evil. But unlike with child abuse outside of our Church we were in a position to stop it, but we chose to let it continue. We were in a position to help the victims, but we chose to try to persuade them to keep quiet about it. We were in a position to deal with and hand over the perpetrators and any evidence to the civil authorities, but we chose to let them go unpunished.
And importantly we are in a position to punish those who allowed this to happen but we still choose to let them go unpunished. Let’s hope Pope Francis breaks the mould and bravely deal with those in the very top ranks of our Church who are guilty of collusion in this.
Two points. Cardinal Law was only allowed to move to Italy** after **the civil authorities determined there was no evidence to bring charges against him at least twice.I completely agree with these recommendations but I wonder if the Vatican does as by having Cardinal Law in Italy he is protected from any punishment from civil authorities?
Cardinal Law is under the Vatican equivalent of “House Arrest”. He has no power and less duties than the normal Parish Priest. If Civil Authorities found new evidence and charged him he would be extradited in a minute.Two points. Cardinal Law was only allowed to move to Italy** after **the civil authorities determined there was no evidence to bring charges against him at least twice.
Second, if you were the Pope, would you rather have someone who is under scrutiny remain in his diocese where he has a large amount of power and control or move him to a purely ceremonial post where he has no authority and is much easier to keep an eye on? Not to mention that since he is now retired, he can live where ever he wants.
Same problem with those who call for all of the suspects to be “defrocked” immediately and let the civil authorities sort out guilt or innocence. Once laicized, no one is monitoring the former clergymen, no one is supporting their efforts to amend their lives and everyone loses if they are not found guilty of a crime.
Believe me Lay ministers are under the microscope already. i had to take a course on Child Abuse just to be allowed to Lector on Tuesday mornings.That’s the point…we can also stop it outside the church too. We need to be aware so it doesn’t happen by lay ministers. Also there are lots of warning signs to help with the little girl in the pew too. Also we need to stop the idealistic “well they can be changed”…very seldom does that happen.
That’s my impression as well. He also understands that failing to take action harms far more than the victims. It’s damaging to the entire Church. I hope he stays aggressive with this.Although some are dismissing this announcement, my early read on Pope Francis is that he is one to take the bull by the horns. I am hopeful of good things…it is certainly an issue that has overshadowed the many positive things that the church does.