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Kevin42
Guest
Doesn’t sound like anything particularly new or exciting to me.
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Pope_Noah_I
Guest
Ahh, this is good to hear.
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mercygate
Guest
Leave it to MSN to present this in the most provocative way possible.
It is the unchanging teaching of the Church as reiterated in the *Catechism. *It’s not like it’s hot news.
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Goblin_Taters
Guest
It has been the parlance of the Church since Vatican II to refer to the Protestant denominations as “ecclesial communities,” since they lack the valid Apostolic succession through the bishops that is necessary for a real Church (such as exists in the Orthodox Churches).
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Bosun
Guest
understand… but why now? Is there really a need to bring this up in this way, so bluntly? Is it just MSN?
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M-Dent
Guest
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
Ok, time to discuss infallibility in this matter. This statement on a previous document was not ex cathedra, neither was the restatement. A bishop’s council (VII) did say that salvation was possible outside the RCC. Since ex cathedra was not invoked, then the VII interpretation stands as by some interpretations, that would still be “infallible” until proven otherwise and no recent meeting of bishops have pulled back from that so far.
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Ammonius_Saccus
Guest
Does this (or the Catechism) mean that they are not true Christians?
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Bosun
Guest
This is too direct! I read the article and it seems to me that they are not. The grey area just became a solid black line. I don’t understand the timing.
Why, why???
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chris_molter
Guest
not at all. This reiterates that protestants ARE Christians and that they are imperfectly joined to the Catholic Church by virtue of their Baptism in the name of the triune God.
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Bosun
Guest
imperfectly joined? c’mon!
What does that mean? According to the Pope, there is only one church, no more gray area!
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mercygate
Guest
Absolutely the Church does NOT say that non-Catholics are not true Christians. The *Catechism *specifically states that they ARE Christians.
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Kevin42
Guest
Before we start this “according to the Pope” stuff, I suggest reading the Popes actual words without the ‘assistance’ of the article providing a few sentences of quote and alot of commentary. I have a feeling that MSNM just picked out a random sermon or speech, and found something that is normal, but decided to try and make it controversial by putting it in such provacative terms.
This is nothing new. Protestant denominations are not in communion with Rome, hence the name “Protestant”. Its not saying they are bad people, these individuals cannot go to heaven, or that these other denominations are all bad. Sure each Christian denomination has some truth to it. However, the Catholic Church, has the fulness of truth, and it is the one true Church established by our Lord.
This is nothing new. Protestant denominations are not in communion with Rome, hence the name “Protestant”. Its not saying they are bad people, these individuals cannot go to heaven, or that these other denominations are all bad. Sure each Christian denomination has some truth to it. However, the Catholic Church, has the fulness of truth, and it is the one true Church established by our Lord.
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chris_molter
Guest
Actually, it’s according to the ecumenical council of Vatican II in Dominus Iesus, not just Pope Benedict.imperfectly joined? c’mon!
What does that mean? According to the Pope, there is only one church, no more gray area!
This is not a gray area. There is one Church, which subsists in the Catholic Church (that is, all true, particular churches in communion with the See of Peter). All Baptised Christians are part of the One Church; however, not all Christians are in full communion with the Church, hence “imperfectly joined”.
It’d be easier to just say “Roman Catholics are in, everyone else is out”, but reality isn’t that easy.
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Bosun
Guest
This is my point exactly! There is no need to for the pope to bring this up now! There is no issue at hand that dictates the need for this. I have read the popes actual words, I understand and agree with him. This misquoted article is what’s bothering me. The Vatican must have known they were going to get misquoted. There is NO need for the Pope to reiterate this belief. If there is, I don’t see it. Someone please guide me towards this illusive need.
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Kevin42
Guest
If the Pope had to worry about everything he said for fear of being misquoted, in todays world, he would be better off remaining silent. This is what preaching is…reiterating beliefs. I dont expect the Pope to stop because MSNM is going to write a provacative article about what has been a belief of the Church for years. Let’s not let the media control how and when the Church proclaims Truth.
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Jaypeeto4
Guest
I’d be wary of ANYTHING in the secular media quoting the Pope.
Still, I’m sure he was using the term “church” in it’s most fundamental and technical catholic sense: a body of believers united under the authority of a Bishop who possesses valid holy orders.
The Protestant Reformers rejected the concept of valid holy orders and hence broke the chain of apostolic succession, something they did not intend to pass on to their successors anyway, since they no longer believed in it.
The Eastern Orthodox, by contrast, have and have always had, valid holy orders and valid sacraments.
It doesn’t mean that baptized protestants are not Christians.
As long as you are baptized in the name of the three Divine Persons of the holy Trinity, you are a Christian. But it would be wonderful, exhilarating, if all Christians were to enter the ancient apostolic Catholic Church so they could benefit from her holy sacraments and the fulness of her doctrinal teachings.
Love,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
Still, I’m sure he was using the term “church” in it’s most fundamental and technical catholic sense: a body of believers united under the authority of a Bishop who possesses valid holy orders.
The Protestant Reformers rejected the concept of valid holy orders and hence broke the chain of apostolic succession, something they did not intend to pass on to their successors anyway, since they no longer believed in it.
The Eastern Orthodox, by contrast, have and have always had, valid holy orders and valid sacraments.
It doesn’t mean that baptized protestants are not Christians.
As long as you are baptized in the name of the three Divine Persons of the holy Trinity, you are a Christian. But it would be wonderful, exhilarating, if all Christians were to enter the ancient apostolic Catholic Church so they could benefit from her holy sacraments and the fulness of her doctrinal teachings.
Love,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
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mercygate
Guest
B-16 is no idiot. Although he is bold and provocative (Regenburg), he would not be gratuitously provocative. If he brought it up now, you can be sure there’s a reason. Dialogue (or what passes for dialogue) with the East has been hot lately. With political tensions in the Middle East, having clear , honest relationships with our Orthodox brothers in particular is critical.
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Bosun
Guest
Please don’t misunderstand me. I am not attacking the pope or his preaching. I simply want to understand why now? Today is not the time to say the Orthodox church is wounded, or that catholic liberals are in error. The timing is ALL wrong!
Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I am reading too much into this article (which by way is way beyond MSN now). I apologize for ruffling feathers that need not be ruffled. I will stop now. Thank you for your responses.
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