Pope: People Accusing Church of Wrongdoing Relatives of the Devil

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Pope: to point out errors in the Church is good, to accuse without love is from the devil - Rome Reports

February 20, 2019. Before the General Audience, he met with pilgrims from the diocese where St. Padre Pio was born.
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This seems to be a trend for this pope. He has a number of times admonished those who point out the faults of the Church. Does he not know when to quit?… reducing heinous evils perpetrated by clergy to ‘mistakes’, calling accusers friends and relatives of the devil (rather than calling the sexual abusers such), and doctrinally speaking, he states that the devil has no children – except that Jesus states otherwise. Quite a number of missteps for such a short speech.
 
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irenaeus1 said:
This seems to be a trend for this pope. He has a number of times admonished those who point out the faults of the Church. Does he not know when to quit?…
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If you read it in context, it’s not a misstep at all:
" When defects are pointed out, defects are denounced, the Church is loved. Without love, that is from the devil.”
Are you saying the bolded statement isn’t true?
 
angel12 said:
If you read it in context, it’s not a misstep at all:
" When defects are pointed out, defects are denounced, the Church is loved. Without love, that is from the devil. ”
Are you saying the bolded statement isn’t true?
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Well, a couple of points. If accusations are valid, love is irrelevant to the truth of the accusation or the wickedness of the act of which is being accused. The accusation against the evil perpetrated by clergy of the Church could be made by an agnostic or atheist, and would be no less valid – even if they hated the Church. Second, what makes the pope think that accusations – even persistent aggressive accusations - are necessarily unloving. Jesus, the epitome of love since he perfectly reflects the Father, was loving when stating that the hypocritical Pharisees had the devil as their father, calling them venomous snakes, or calling Herod a fox, or saying of Judas that it would be better if he had never been born, or overturning the money changers’ tables in righteous indignation… a lot of name-calling, accusing, and/or responses that appear unloving, but we know that they are not.
 
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I saw no problem with this message. It actually sort of helped verbalize something I’ve long felt when my fellow Catholics criticize the church in a certain way. There is a difference between gotcha types of criticism and loving the church and wanting her to be her best.
 
I think what he said is fine. Too many people just want to criticize the Church and they give no praise or acknowledgment to the many clergy and employees of the Church who are doing a good job or trying to right wrongs. Too many people just want to complain.
 
If the wrongdoing is true, then wouldn’t it be the people doing wrong that are aligning with the devil. In most of these cases now, it isn’t the Church uncovering them, its law enforcement or journalists or state and national governments, whom I assure you do not do so out of love for the Church. But yet they are the ones who are acting in a way of protection to the flock.
I must say I’m disappointed but sometimes flat out shocked at this Pope and some things he says in regards to these scandals. Saing this close to the summit, coupled with his Chile comments. What’s the old adage dont shoot the messenger? Maybe self reflection by the Church is needed more right now. Not showing annoyance at those who point out Her Crimes. Not even if they do so joyfully!
 
Oh my, so those poor people in the Chilean Church who ‘complained’ about Bishop Barros… and the poor bishops who complained to the pope about Bishop Barros… were complainers and friends or relatives of the devil for making accusations. You think that the criticism is unjust when the pope is misdirecting who he should be calling children of the devil. You have got to be kidding me.
 
DisorientingSneeze said:
I saw no problem with this message. It actually sort of helped verbalize something I’ve long felt when my fellow Catholics criticize the church in a certain way. There is a difference between gotcha types of criticism and loving the church and wanting her to be her best.
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There’s plenty wrong with the message. First, the epidemic of heinous evil and the complicity of the cover-up can hardly be called merely a ‘mistake’ to be reported. Only if viewed as a ‘mistake’ can one possibly think that ‘accuse, accuse, accuse’ is an overreaction. Pope Francis has never said that the perpetrators of evil against minors or vulnerable adults are aligned with the devil, but he has said on at least three different occasions that those who accuse the clergy of sexual abuse and cover up are aligned with the evil one. Bad optics and certainly no comfort to the victims.
 
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I guess I just hear most of his messages like he is talking to me and think about how I should adjust myself, thinking of them more like homilies intended for all souls. It does make sense what you’re saying about optics.
 
“One cannot live their whole life accusing, accusing, accusing the Church. Whose profession is it to accuse? Who is the ‘great accuser’ quoted in the Bible? I don’t understand. I can’t hear well. The devil. Those who spend their lives accusing, accusing, accusing, are I won’t say children, because the devil doesn’t have any, but friends, cousins, relatives of the devil, right?
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I think the elephant in the room is that many people criticising the church and the pope have not spent their lives doing this.

Rightly or wrongly it has been in response to news of abuse and of the pope’s own words and actions.

There seems to be a continual lack of acknowledgement to the reality of what it actually is that is being criticised. Continual blanket and vague criticisms of groups of people being things such as ‘friends of the devil’ is not an intellectual nor helpful response.

And it is certainly not the honest, plain speaking transparency that one would wish from a leader.
 
I can’t help thinking how many of the victims must feel about this. It is understandable, though tragic, after being abused by clergy and then ignored by the church, that they do not feel much love for the church. And now to be told their accusations are from the devil since they are not making them out of love for the church. I certainly know that the Holy Father does not intend for this to be his message to them. The message was directed to us Catholics. But I do wish he would be more precise in his wording.
 
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With all due respect and honor to His Holiness Pope Francis, me thinks he is starting to feel the heat.
We saw a similar response the last time certain Cardinals asked him, with due reverence, for a clarification of Amoris Laetitia.
 
1 If I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
 
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irenaeus1 said:
Oh my, so those poor people in the Chilean Church who ‘complained’ about Bishop Barros… and the poor bishops who complained to the pope about Bishop Barros… were complainers and friends or relatives of the devil for making accusations. You think that the criticism is unjust when the pope is misdirecting who he should be calling children of the devil. You have got to be kidding me.
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You are deliberately twisting what the Pope said, and what other posters say.
 
I understand why people might view this in light of the abuse scandal, but I don’t think that’s what Pope Francis is going for here. He was reflecting on Padre Pio and pointing out that there is a right way to point out errors and a wrong way. He is speaking generally, and doesn’t mention sexual abuse at all.

I don’t see what is wrong with what he said. How we go about asking for reform matters. Even if we all agree that reform is necessary (and reform of the Church will always be necessary) there are constructive ways to go about it and destructive ways to go about it.

All I have to do is browse the internet and I can see that there are many who have chosen the destructive way.
 
Joe_5859 said:
I understand why people might view this in light of the abuse scandal, but I don’t think that’s what Pope Francis is going for here.
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I agree with your post, but this is why the Holy Father has to be careful and precise in his wording. And talk of criticism or reform of the Church, at this point in time, is going to be viewed in light of the abuse scandal. That is an unfortunate fact.
 
angel12 said:
You are deliberately twisting what the Pope said, and what other posters say.
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Uh, no I’m not. The pope clearly referred to sexual abuse as simply ‘mistakes’. He compared those who continually accuse the Church of wrongdoing to be in league with the Great Accuser. Give me a break.

Are you forgetting that Pope Francis overruled advice given to him by the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith about two priests - lessening their ‘penalty’ allowing them to be punished by a lifetime of prayer? One of them being the notorious Fr. Mauro Inzoli. Pope Benedict defrocked Fr. Inzoli in 2012 for molesting little boys in the confessional. Yet, when Pope Francis came into office, he reinstated him to the priesthood and withheld evidence from the Italian authorities during the criminal investigation into his atrocities. Pope Francis only reversed course and defrocked him again later after the courts sentenced him.

Pope Francis rejected and ignored numerous pleas (i.e., complaints) for years regarding the inappropriateness of naming Bishop Barros to a Chilean diocese. When confronted with this while himself in Chile, he called the accusers liars guilty of slander or calumny. He only reversed course later apologizing for his grave error in judgment (due to not having all the information).

With behavior like this, the Church has every reason to be on the receiving end of such accusations.
 
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