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terryobrien1980
Guest
This is a symptom OF those bigger problems, the failure of many to integrate the faith into their daily lives…
Plus, I think the Pope can deal with more than one problem at a time.
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Plus, I think the Pope can deal with more than one problem at a time.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
My 30 year old daughter is Jordana Adrienne, the feminine of Blessed Jordan of Saxony whose feast day is February 15, and of St. Adrian, the patron saint of soldiers and butchers.
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Abyssinia
Guest
Dr Edward Peters says:
No, “rail” against giving un-Christian names to babiesdidn’t, but he did point out, calmly and correctly, that names are important, and that the choice of a child’s name should not be left to whim or fancy. There is, though—as is so often the case with news stories about the Church—a canonical aspect to this issue.
Canon 855 of the 1983 Code states that “Parents, sponsors, and the pastor are to take care that a name foreign to Christian sensibility is not given.” The obligation here is “negative” in that there is a duty to avoid names antithetical to Christian values.
The 1917 Code, however, read differently. Canon 761 thereof stated that “Pastors should take care that a Christian name is given to those whom they baptize; but if they are not able to bring this about, they will add to the name given by the parents the name of some Saint and record both names in the book of baptisms.” The obligation there was “positive” in that a name consistent with Christian tradition needed to be sought.
The law was taken at face value. My mother, named Nancy, loved telling how for one day in her life she was called Mary in deference to the pastor who, baptizing her in 1923, insisted that “Nancy” was not a Christian name, but that Mary surely was. Interestingly, though called Nancy all her life, my mom’s devotion to Mary was a hallmark of her spiritual life. Hmmm.
Personally, I think that either formulation of the law provides sufficient guidance in the choice of names for Christians of good will, and that neither formulation is adequate to prevent parents from abusing their responsibilities in the naming of their children. But I will say this: more than once over the years, when people hear the names of our children (Thomas, Charles, Catherine, Robert, Margaret, and Theresa) they can’t help but to say, “Gee, what lovely Catholic names they have!”
And they do.
canonlawblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/pope-on-childrens-names.html
No, “rail” against giving un-Christian names to babiesdidn’t, but he did point out, calmly and correctly, that names are important, and that the choice of a child’s name should not be left to whim or fancy. There is, though—as is so often the case with news stories about the Church—a canonical aspect to this issue.
Canon 855 of the 1983 Code states that “Parents, sponsors, and the pastor are to take care that a name foreign to Christian sensibility is not given.” The obligation here is “negative” in that there is a duty to avoid names antithetical to Christian values.
The 1917 Code, however, read differently. Canon 761 thereof stated that “Pastors should take care that a Christian name is given to those whom they baptize; but if they are not able to bring this about, they will add to the name given by the parents the name of some Saint and record both names in the book of baptisms.” The obligation there was “positive” in that a name consistent with Christian tradition needed to be sought.
The law was taken at face value. My mother, named Nancy, loved telling how for one day in her life she was called Mary in deference to the pastor who, baptizing her in 1923, insisted that “Nancy” was not a Christian name, but that Mary surely was. Interestingly, though called Nancy all her life, my mom’s devotion to Mary was a hallmark of her spiritual life. Hmmm.
Personally, I think that either formulation of the law provides sufficient guidance in the choice of names for Christians of good will, and that neither formulation is adequate to prevent parents from abusing their responsibilities in the naming of their children. But I will say this: more than once over the years, when people hear the names of our children (Thomas, Charles, Catherine, Robert, Margaret, and Theresa) they can’t help but to say, “Gee, what lovely Catholic names they have!”
And they do.
canonlawblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/pope-on-childrens-names.html
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sojo
Guest
I don’t see that our Pope “railed” against those popular culture names. He was instead encouraging the use of biblical and saints’ names. Which I wholeheartedly agree with.
Maybe its a hangover from my pre-Christian, “new-agey” days, but I do believe there is power in a name. The ancient Hebrews felt the same way - names were carefully chosen for meaning. Even Jesus changed Saul’s name to drive home a point, for all of us, but most especially for him. Every time he said his new name he was reminded that he was the ROCK of the new church.
When my miracle baby was born, my husband and I spent a lot of time on choosing a name. As we knew he would have Down syndrome, we wanted it to be very short, and easy to write. My mother told me about working with special needs kids who were in their 40s and still couldn’t print out their long, fancy names.
I also wanted it to have a meaning my son could hold onto for life. We chose, “Sam” - Hebrew for “asked of God” or “gift from God” because he was exactly that. And we started teaching Sam the meaning of his name from about age two - so when people treated him (and even discussed his disability in front of him) as a mistake, a genetic freak, and just assumed the stupid parents didn’t get tested and had him aborted, he would always know that, no, he was asked for, prayed for and we chose to accept this gift we had begged for so often… he was not a genetic error but a gift from God.
And his middle name, David, was the youngest and weakest of his brothers who was chosen ahead of his brothers and was able to accomplish great things by relying entirely on God and not his own strength. It is also my husband’s middle name - to show him he is not less than a full heritage by having Down syndrome. It would express that we were proud of him and proud to give him a family name.
There is power in names, and it is a shame to waste that power with some short-term “designer” name.
Maybe its a hangover from my pre-Christian, “new-agey” days, but I do believe there is power in a name. The ancient Hebrews felt the same way - names were carefully chosen for meaning. Even Jesus changed Saul’s name to drive home a point, for all of us, but most especially for him. Every time he said his new name he was reminded that he was the ROCK of the new church.
When my miracle baby was born, my husband and I spent a lot of time on choosing a name. As we knew he would have Down syndrome, we wanted it to be very short, and easy to write. My mother told me about working with special needs kids who were in their 40s and still couldn’t print out their long, fancy names.
I also wanted it to have a meaning my son could hold onto for life. We chose, “Sam” - Hebrew for “asked of God” or “gift from God” because he was exactly that. And we started teaching Sam the meaning of his name from about age two - so when people treated him (and even discussed his disability in front of him) as a mistake, a genetic freak, and just assumed the stupid parents didn’t get tested and had him aborted, he would always know that, no, he was asked for, prayed for and we chose to accept this gift we had begged for so often… he was not a genetic error but a gift from God.
And his middle name, David, was the youngest and weakest of his brothers who was chosen ahead of his brothers and was able to accomplish great things by relying entirely on God and not his own strength. It is also my husband’s middle name - to show him he is not less than a full heritage by having Down syndrome. It would express that we were proud of him and proud to give him a family name.
There is power in names, and it is a shame to waste that power with some short-term “designer” name.
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Hastrman
Guest
Part of this is relative, too. For some reason Native Americans often have odd names; I went to school with a Havasupai girl named Millicent and Navajo boys named Leander and Bjorn. And Navajos use a lot of Anglo surnames as first names, like Evans or Wilson (then again a bunch of their “surnames” are actually nicknames—Yazzie is “little”, Tso is “big”, Tsosie is “skinny”, Bizaadi is “talkative”—and “Begay” is actually “his son”, biye’).
I’d really like to know why everyone thinks all Natives use the Sioux “animal names” thing. Navajos never name their kids after animals (well, that they know—“Bjorn” means bear in Norse) for fear of calling the animals when they say the kid’s name. My mother knew someone whose grandmother got really angry at her for naming her dog “Shash” (bear), because black bears may not be grizzlies, but they sure aren’t safe, and you wouldn’t want to call one.
I’d really like to know why everyone thinks all Natives use the Sioux “animal names” thing. Navajos never name their kids after animals (well, that they know—“Bjorn” means bear in Norse) for fear of calling the animals when they say the kid’s name. My mother knew someone whose grandmother got really angry at her for naming her dog “Shash” (bear), because black bears may not be grizzlies, but they sure aren’t safe, and you wouldn’t want to call one.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Well, Marcus Seamus is just Marcus James, and I’d guess that you pronounce the rest as pro-in-say - o’ murchada. 
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Hastrman
Guest
Oh, well, that’s because it had these macho Sioux warriors talking like women—imagine a Viking picture where they talk like Monty Python housewives.
See, Sioux men talk very differently from Sioux women; they use a lot more figures of speech and rhetorical constructions, because, traditionally, a man is a warrior and has to be bold. You know Brian Blessed? Brian Blessed is who every Sioux man aspired to be.
See, Sioux men talk very differently from Sioux women; they use a lot more figures of speech and rhetorical constructions, because, traditionally, a man is a warrior and has to be bold. You know Brian Blessed? Brian Blessed is who every Sioux man aspired to be.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Do you mean when they are speaking among themselves in their native language? I’m presuming that when they speak English, they speak not much differently than the rest of us, men or women. Indeed, I’m not all that sure - and I may be wrong - that there aren’t that many native speakers of Sioux left.
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Hastrman
Guest
I mean the grammar of the Sioux language is set up so that rhetorical usage, etc. are marked as masculine speech, just as the use of the polite formal in Korean is marked as masculine (polite informal is feminine, except in Seoul). And yeah, the Sioux talk like everyone else, in English.
And actually Sioux has a lot of speakers in Canada, from what I recall.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Interesting. I learned to speak Vietnamese to be a prisoner interrogator in the late 60s, and Thai as well when I was an agent handler in Thailand thereafter, but except for some terms of address, polite forms, and references to self, there were no separate “languages” for men or women in either language.
Korean undoubtedly had different roots than those two. Thank God for the French who got the Vietnamese to switch to the Roman alphabet and to appreciate eating bread.
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Gearoidin
Guest
Cliona is a very normal name in Ireland - it is the Anglicised form of Cliodhna, a character from Irish legend. My mother had an aunt named Cliona (she was born about 1890) so it is certainly not a new name. Of course, it is not a Christian name either but many in Ireland have a traditional Irish first name with a more common saint’s middle name. I have friends named Orla Margaret, Cliona Mary, Una Claire, Meabh Ann, Aoife Patricia etc.
Gearoidin
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Gearoidin
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Marcus Seamus Proinsais O’Murchadha
A very normal name where I’m from!
A very normal name where I’m from!
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Gearoidin
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Turkish LOL! I’ve never heard that one before. I’ve used my family name in Irish a few times in the UK. I remember once picking up photos from Boots and the staff there telling me that they had spent the day guessing the nationality/language of my name. Nobody had guessed Irish. I ended up “explaining” Irish names to them - Mc/Mac/Mhac, Ni. Ui and O. It was quite and interesting discussion.
Gearoidin
Gearoidin
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Really? It made me think of a guy in super-powered armor hyper-kicking a monster into explosive oblivion.
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jmcrae
Guest
I always thought “Ryder” was a brand name of toy wagons.Really? It made me think of a guy in super-powered armor hyper-kicking a monster into explosive oblivion.
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Brendan
Guest
Or a BB gunI always thought “Ryder” was a brand name of toy wagons.
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Joe_5859
Guest
Or the one I heard of the kid named (here’s the phonetic spelling) “MISS-tuh-kay”. It was spelled M-i-s-t-a-k-e.
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coconutty2
Guest
I think you should have to give your child a saint name at their Baptism; if not their first name, then definitely the middle name. If I have children someday, I will name my first son Joseph, and my first girl Mary Our Lady of the Angels. My second girl would likely be Teresa Grace.
“In the end, my Immaculate Heart will trimuph” - Our Lady at Fatima(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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BlueSapphire
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Mark James Frank Murphy
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