Pope reaffirms ban on women priests

[PRmerger]

My point is:
Just like so many other things about the Catholic Church (such as its status as the official religion in many countries) the way that it treats and regards women has probably changed a great deal over the centuries.

On this we are agreed!

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I see.

So Christianity treated women better than pagans, jews, atheists…

Who else is left who treated women better than Christianity?

If you say so.

One would think that atheism would promote an altruism and heroic standard for proclaiming one’s ideals, but maybe that’s just the what the atheists on this forum like to think about themselves.

You won’t find many (acknewledged) homosexuals in the history of Christendom for similar reasons. People won’t advertise their status as belonging to a group when that status automatically makes them a criminal.

From what I know about the Pagan Romans, they did not care what you really believed, as long as you went through the motions of emperor worship. The Israelis were a problem province because they refused to even do that much.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes it is.
You’re practically admitting in it the text above.
Its led by the Bishop of Rome and its capital is in Rome (it would still be the Eternal City itself if the Italians hadn’t taken it from the Church at bayonet point).

This is a statement made of ignorance, Angry.

You are excluding 22 other rites each time you claim the Catholic Church is the Roman Catholic Church.

I would think that one of your precepts as an atheist who is principled and moral would be that you want to be tolerant and inclusive.

Saying the Church is Roman excludes the Syrian Catholics (millions of folks) Coptic Catholics (ditto), Byzantine Catholics (ditto), etc etc etc.

If you want to sound smart and informed, you won’t refer to the Church as Roman.

It’s kind of like saying “All Americans can vote.” Um…nope. Not all Americans can vote. Unless you think prison inmates aren’t Americans? And 16 year olds aren’t?

(Disclaimer: let’s not argue whether the teen ager and inmate weren’t born on US territory.)

The Catholic Church is in many ways all that remains of the Roman Empire.

Okay.

 

[PRmerger]

You won’t find many (acknewledged) homosexuals in the history of Christendom for similar reasons. People won’t advertise their status as belonging to a group when that status automatically makes them a criminal.

From what I know about the Pagan Romans, they did not care what you really believed, as long as you went through the motions of emperor worship. The Israelis were a problem province because they refused to even do that much.

Okay.

Non-sequitur. But okay.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Both.

Let you give an (extreme) example.

Are nuclear weapons the problem or are the people who build and and might use nukes the problem?

The answer of course is both. Because the people created the nukes (just like people create religions) and are all too likely to use them for bad ends.

I see that for some reason you do not choose to consider that religion (that is, the understanding of God’s existence and how He interacts with us) might not be created by ‘man alone’.

Unless you are open-minded enough to consider that there might be something apart from people involved in existence, you are doomed to completely misunderstand the Christian religion.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

**This is a statement made of ignorance, Angry.

You are excluding 22 other rites each time you claim the Catholic Church is the Roman Catholic Church.**
I would think that one of your precepts as an atheist who is principled and moral would be that you want to be tolerant and inclusive.

Saying the Church is Roman excludes the Syrian Catholics (millions of folks) Coptic Catholics (ditto), Byzantine Catholics (ditto), etc etc etc.

If you want to sound smart and informed, you won’t refer to the Church as Roman.

It’s kind of like saying “All Americans can vote.” Um…nope. Not all Americans can vote. Unless you think prison inmates aren’t Americans? And 16 year olds aren’t?

(Disclaimer: let’s not argue whether the teen ager and inmate weren’t born on US territory.)

Okay.

Yet they are all led by the Bishop of Rome, who has traditionally ruled from that city. Moreover the history of the early Church is in many ways the history of the (late) Roman Empire.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I see that for some reason you do not choose to consider that religion (that is, the understanding of God’s existence and how He interacts with us) might not be created by ‘man alone’.

Unless you are open-minded enough to consider that there might be something apart from people involved in existence, you are doomed to completely misunderstand the Christian religion.

All religions cannot be true.
They can however, all be false.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

All religions cannot be true.
They can however, all be false.

Ah, but that is not what I claimed.

And you ignore the fact that indeed one religion CAN be true and the rest false.

Furthermore, if all religions were false, how would you ‘know’?

How do you judge something to be false unless there is somewhere a truth that you measure it against?

Can you honestly say that there is absolutely nothing ‘true’ in any religion?

If there is any truth in any of them, then they aren’t ‘all false’, are they?

 

[Slaney]

I wish I had a job where my day ended before 2pm

True it’s the time zone this time, not the ozone…

 

[PRmerger]

Yet they are all led by the Bishop of Rome, who has traditionally ruled from that city. Moreover the history of the early Church is in many ways the history of the (late) Roman Empire.

Okay, Angry. Just trying to raise your status on the forums to that of someone who is more informed.

Right now, insisting on calling the Church “Roman”, especially to a Byzantine Catholic, or a Coptic Catholic, or a Syrian Catholic is akin to telling a Chinese person, “You’re Japanese because you’re all part of Asia anyway, right?”

Many people have told me similar things and they just get a withering look from me. And are marked as “stupid” in my book.

But, you can persist in calling the Catholic Church “Roman” if that’s what you want. It aint’ going to hurt me none.

Flat earthers are rare, but they do exist.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Okay, Angry. Just trying to raise your status on the forums to that of someone who is more informed.

Right now, insisting on calling the Church “Roman”, especially to a Byzantine Catholic, or a Coptic Catholic, or a Syrian Catholic is akin to telling a Chinese person, “You’re Japanese because you’re all part of Asia anyway, right?”

Many people have told me similar things and they just get a withering look from me. And are marked as “stupid” in my book.

But, you can persist in calling the Catholic Church “Roman” if that’s what you want. It aint’ going to hurt me none.

Flat earthers are rare, but they do exist.

Congratulations, that’s the most condescending thing anyone has told me in days:thumbsup:

On a more serious note:
I am aware that there are other types of Catholics besides Roman Catholics. But that is a distinction that would would seem relatively insignificant except to insiders (i.e. members) and those who have studied the issue.

They (Catholics) all claim allegiance to the Vatican (and up til recently Rome itself, for it was the capital of Catholicism) and acknewledge the Pope (Bishop of Rome) as their spiritual head.

To use your analogy, I am not calling all Asians Chinese, I am simply refusing (in this instance at least) to call them anything but Asian.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

**Okay, Angry. Just trying to raise your status on the forums to that of someone who is more informed.**Right now, insisting on calling the Church “Roman”, especially to a Byzantine Catholic, or a Coptic Catholic, or a Syrian Catholic is akin to telling a Chinese person, “You’re Japanese because you’re all part of Asia anyway, right?”

**Many people have told me similar things and they just get a withering look from me. And are marked as “stupid” in my book.

But, you can persist in calling the Catholic Church “Roman” if that’s what you want. It aint’ going to hurt me none.

Flat earthers are rare, but they do exist.**

Why should I care that you think I am stupid?

Your faith already requires you to view me as misguided (or actively evil, to hear some conservative Catholics tell it). What’s the relevance of some disdain for my intelligence on top of that?

 

[PRmerger]

Congratulations, that’s the most condescending thing anyone has told me in days:thumbsup:

Sarcasm is the protest of the weak, Angry.

I rarely use it.

 

[PRmerger]

Why should I care that you think I am stupid?

You missed my analogy completely.

I think people who insist on calling me Chinese when I have told them that I am not, to be stupid. They have the mentality, “Well, it all started in China anyway…”

 

[PRmerger]

Why should I care that you think I am stupid?

Your faith already requires you to view me as misguided (or actively evil, to hear some conservative Catholics tell it). What’s the relevance of some disdain for my intelligence on top of that?

Go ahead, friend, and keep calling the Catholic Church “Roman Catholic” if that pleases you.

If you want to persist in that ignorance, as I said, go for it.

You can continue to misspell things, too. And use grammatically incorrect words.

People will draw their own conclusions about your abilities by what you continue to proffer.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Sarcasm is the protest of the weak, Angry.

I rarely use it.

I was not being sarcastic.
That was the most condescending thing that anyone has told me in days.
And I was amused by it:shrug:

 

[AngryAtheist8]

You missed my analogy completely.

I think people who insist on calling me Chinese when I have told them that I am not, to be stupid. They have the mentality, “Well, it all started in China anyway…”

Unless you ARE Chinese its a completely different analogy.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Go ahead, friend, and keep calling the Catholic Church “Roman Catholic” if that pleases you.

If you want to persist in that ignorance, as I said, go for it.

You can continue to misspell things, too. And use grammatically incorrect words.

People will draw their own conclusions about your abilities by what you continue to proffer.

If you want to go Grammar Nazi on me that’s fine.
I am sure that I could find you misspelling things on this Forum too.

I am aware that there are different branches of Catholicism, and that the Roman/Latin version is merely one of those branches (albeit, probably the most well known and influential by far).

But since all the branches are led by the Bishop of Rome (who has traditionally had Rome as a capital) all those branches are Roman in a sense (regardless of their official/proper names).

To be honest I don’t even remember why we started this argument.

 

[Slaney]

To be honest I don’t even remember why we started this argument.

Which means your only arguing for the sake of arguing…

 

[PRmerger]

If you want to go Grammar Nazi on me that’s fine.
I am sure that I could find you misspelling things on this Forum too.

So here’s the thing, Angry. If someone pointed out that I had fallen into, say, the basic “they’re, their, there” grammar error, I’d simply admit my error and say, “Thanks for pointing that out to me. I didn’t know” and refrain from using doing that in the future.

To say, "Nope. Sometimes it’s correct to say ‘Few religious conservatives would agree with that logic (at least if their honest).’ and use ‘their’ instead of “they’re’ because I believe it’s correct in my own mind” is…well…

I’ll let you fill in the rest with how you would view someone who says that.