Pope reaffirms ban on women priests

[PRmerger]

It comes from the logic that the Christian religion is based on the one who came along and founded it, Jesus of Nazareth, and what he said and did.
That makes sense, doesn’t it?

Well, heaintheavy, why do you allow yourself to believe something that’s not stated in the Bible (“all God’s teachings must be found in the Bible!”)

yet not afford Catholics this very same allowance?

That doesn’t seem very fair, does it? :nope:

If the rules or doctrines are not based on what he said, then…they are just made up? With mortal men (but no women) guessing?

Of course they are based on what God said.

Catholics proclaim to believe in God’s Word. ALL of God’s Word.

However, God’s Word is not contained to Sacred Scripture. In fact, Scripture says as much. (2 Thes 2:15, John 16:12-13, John 20:30)

God’s Word is contained in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

 

[PRmerger]

No, I understand that it is meant to be a calling (though many priests do, indeed, go into it as a job).

Can you cite some sources for this, heaintheavy?

But I see that women are “called” to it, too.

Just as some women feel called to marry a particular man, but it turns out that they were simply misled by their emotions.

Feeling called to do something does not necessarily imply that this calling is correct.

 

[PRmerger]

I was waitin’, all excited, for you to answer the big finale question!

If Jesus didn’t specifically say women cannot be priests, which it looks like he didn’t, I am so very, very curious to know at what point did someone decide this and who exactly it was and why?

You commented on all the others! Can you answer the last one, puh-leeze, and thanks!

Since there have NEVER been women priests in Christianity, this question is a bit puzzling.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

This is an interesting comment. It seems, then, that you are affirming the Catholic’s position that celibacy and monogamy are inherent goods? We “enforce” these ideals because they are part of the natural law? Yes?

Now you’re just being contrary

 

[jasonjessica09]

Why is this disucssion contuing? Fact: There will NEVER be a woman priest. It is not possible. The Pope himself does not have the authority to allow this. Also it is not natrual. The concept of a woman priest is like a man getting pregnant. It is not possible.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

It doesn’t conflict. It merely seems to be operating from a presupposition that, in this argument, you believe Christ established a Church.

If you don’t believe Christ established a Church, then what church women belong to is irrelevant, don’t you think?

Just because all churches may be equally false, that doesn’t mean that their equal in all other ways.
For instance, regardless of whether the teachings of Mohammed or Jesus have more spiritual weight, its fairly well established that Christianity treats women better than Islam.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Why though ? Why can’t a woman be a priest? To me that’s a lot like Islam.

Both Christianity and Islam have discriminated against women throughout most of their history, but with Islam its been much more systemmatic and severe.

 

[PRmerger]

Why is this disucssion contuing? Fact: There will NEVER be a woman priest. It is not possible. The Pope himself does not have the authority to allow this. Also it is not natrual. The concept of a woman priest is like a man getting pregnant. It is not possible.

Because discussion aids us in understanding.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Sure

Divorce and re- marriage is a sin? I happen to know a woman who was in a horrible marriage . So she is sinning for finally leaving a ten year horror flick ?

Re-read what I actually posted.
I was saying that the early Churchmen came up with sayings like that because it matched what they already believed.

 

[PRmerger]

Now you’re just being contrary

Not at all. I am never contrary.

But the point I am making ought to be considered. If your position is that Christians have created a god in our own image, then to say that celibacy in the priesthood is something we’ve created (because we want to) presupposes that celibacy in the priesthood is a good that we’ve affirmed.

Yes?

 

[Lochias]

Both Christianity and Islam have discriminated against women throughout most of their history, but with Islam its been much more systemmatic and severe.

Source, as regards to Christianity? And I want sources from the early days of the Catholic church, please.

 

[PRmerger]

Just because all churches may be equally false, that doesn’t mean that their equal in all other ways.

Okay.

For instance, regardless of whether the teachings of Mohammed or Jesus have more spiritual weight, its fairly well established that Christianity treats women better than Islam.

No doubt.

Now, to the question: do you believe that a woman who leaves a church to seek a church that conforms to her own opinions is creating a false image of her own design? yes or no?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Thanks but that’s the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. By the way if we didn’t have women we wouldn’t have the priest in the first place that prob raised d the priest . Oh and just call them mother instead of father , right? I’m just saying I don’t see the big deal here.

You have to see in it in context.
Historically in most times and places manhood and masculinity was seen as far superior to womanhood and femininity.
That’s why women have traditionally been barred from so many areas of power and influence (like the law), why women were often regarded as chattel in the past, and why the people of Asia are so ready to cast aside the next generation of women as a group.

Saying that God is a man and therefore men are more Godly (or at least more like the human aspect of God) is relatively mild by comparison. Though of course in practice, theologians have sometimes asserted basic feminine inferiority to justify it.

 

[PRmerger]

Both Christianity and Islam have discriminated against women throughout most of their history, but with Islam its been much more systemmatic and severe.

You would be better served by saying “Both Christians and Muslims have discriminated against women throughout most of their history, but with Islam it’s been much more systematic and severe.”

And, I would add: Atheists have discriminated against women throughout most of their history as well. :sad_yes:

There was enough misogyny to spread the blame all around.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Why? Because they owned property? So did many orders or nuns - run by abbesses and mother superiors who managed everything in the same way men did.

Because they ran businesses such as schools and hospitals and so were out in the community helping? Again, so did nuns. More so than priests, probably.

Because they were teachers and theologians and movers and shakers? As stated above, so were people like St Catherine of Siena and St Teresa of Avila.

Because they advised people including bishops and Popes on matters spiritual and practical? Again, St Hildegard of Bingen as well as St Catherine and St Teresa and others did so very openly.

I think you’re trying to confuse the issue.
In virtual (Catholic) theocracies such as Franco Spain and mid-20th century Ireland it was priests who decided what should be censored, pressured Parliament, got laws that they didn’t like buried, lived on the largess of government, etc.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Why? Because they owned property? So did many orders or nuns - run by abbesses and mother superiors who managed everything in the same way men did.

Because they ran businesses such as schools and hospitals and so were out in the community helping? Again, so did nuns. More so than priests, probably.

**Because they were teachers and theologians and movers and shakers? As stated above, so were people like St Catherine of Siena and St Teresa of Avila.

Because they advised people including bishops and Popes on matters spiritual and practical? Again, St Hildegard of Bingen as well as St Catherine and St Teresa and others did so very openly**.

But such women are very much the exception in Church history.
For instance, only 3 of the 33 Doctors of the Church are women, and all of these women were declared Doctors relatively recently.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
I hope you realize that to outsiders, that’s what it appears that Christians in general and Catholics in particular have already done

Forgive me, but only to outsiders who are woefully, painfully uneducated about the subject at hand.

Hardly

I understand the basic premises of Catholicism, I simply see no reason to accept them.

 

[Brendan]

But such women are very much the exception in Church history.
For instance, only 3 of the 33 Doctors of the Church are women, and all of these women were declared Doctors relatively recently.

But Mary has been considered to be the Queen of Heaven and Earth since the Assuption. We also consider her to be God’s most perfect creation.

Every single Pope, Bishop or Priest considers himself inferior to a woman, and looks to her as an example of Christian living.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Not at all. I am never contrary.

But the point I am making ought to be considered. If your position is that Christians have created a god in our own image, then to say that celibacy in the priesthood is something we’ve created (because we want to) presupposes that celibacy in the priesthood is a good that we’ve affirmed.

Yes?

Not in any way, shape, matter, or form.

For instance,
The Aztec priests created their system of human sacrifice and thought that it had value.
Did that make it good?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Source, as regards to Christianity? And I want sources from the early days of the Catholic church, please.

The Church didn’t keep records during the time of the Roman persecutions:shrug:
At least not that I’m aware of.

And since they were an underground movement the Roman authorities did not have good records in their habits either.