Pope reaffirms ban on women priests

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Tantum_ergo said:
I told you, we aren’t playing.

Just as I suspected, you (purely from your own opinion) have ‘determined’ that subject X (Economics) is PURELY SECULAR.
We, of course, are expected to swallow that without question.

And then you comment by using an article which does not present Pope Benedict’s remarks in context, but rather comments by another person (representing that person’s opinion of what the Pope meant).

And of course, as I suspected, you then make the claim that the Pope "feels HE ‘gets to set the guidelines’ on this PURELY secular matter. . .

As if nobody but the Pope has EVER commented on the subject of economics and that nobody, not even your ‘secular’ economists, have ever called for ANY change in the subject whatsoever. Oh no, only the POPE is forbidden to weigh in on a subject which YOU have determined is purely ‘secular’ (because you SAY so). .

You really appear to be interested in, as I said, nothing more than trying to take the bully pulpit to present your personal opinion of what you think Catholicism teaches, and to criticize it.
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Then what is purely secular?
Does anything fall under that category?

Or…
Does the Catholic Church feel that everything falls under its spiritual/teaching authority?
 
MarcoPolo said:
In his response to the Austrian group, his first in public, Pope Benedict noted that, in its “call to disobedience”, it had challenged "definitive decisions of the Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) such as the question of women’s ordination …"Story at Irish Times.

Full transcript of Pope Benedict XVI’s April 5, 2012 homily can be read here.
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Right. John Paul II made a clear statement which supported Paul VI’s statement to the Anglican communion which is in complete sync with all Church history and practice. Women’s ordination is not a question and has never been a question. This settled when Jesus selected men and the Church has no right to tinker with that. There is no confusion on this subject except for the ones in the minds of these people who are so deceived.
 
melekali said:
Right. John Paul II made a clear statement which supported Paul VI’s statement to the Anglican communion which is in complete sync with all Church history and practice. Women’s ordination is not a question and has never been a question. This settled when Jesus selected men and the Church has no right to tinker with that. There is no confusion on this subject except for the ones in the minds of these people who are so deceived.
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As I have said numerous times in this thread:
Everyone would be happier (including the would-be female priests themselves) if these women simply left the Church.
 
Marybeloved said:
The teaching is all about obedience to the will of Christ. He did not want women priests- period. That’s why the Church says she has no authority to ordain them- the authority comes from Christ and goes where he wants, not where anyone else thinks it should.

As you pointed out, Christ had many women followers. In fact, many of them were much more loyal to him and faithful at the dark hour unlike the men who deserted, denied and betrayed him. Yet he made none of these holy women priests. None were invited to the last supper where the priest-hood was instituted (the priesthood is all about the Eucharist- A sacrifice. It’s the body and blood of Christ offered to the Father for us, and then to us as food). Not even the Holiest person in Catholicism after Christ (His Mother) was there.

Any one who insists on women priests is telling the CC (Catholic Church) that Christ did not know what he was doing, and neither did his Apostles. Seeing as the CC looks to Christ as her very Lord and God, Master, King and Savior- That notion simply will not fly with her. We do what Christ wanted and wants, not what our modern values suggest is “fair” and equal, not what we think will make women “happy” and feel equal. The Church is a kingdom- A theocratic one. She is all about following the will of One man alone- Christ. If a person doesn’t like it, they should seek membership in someone else’s territory. The CC is Christ’s domain.
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There are some excellent responses in support of the doctrine concerning women’s ordination which was not authorized by Christ. There is one thing people have not mentioned. That is the right matter for a sacrament to be valid. In baptism, we must use water because Christ was involved in the sacrament with water. Nothing else would be valid. Bread and grape wine were used for the eucharist. That is what Christ used, so it is necessary to be valid. Using anything else would invalidate the sacrament. All the sacraments must be used the way Christ meant them to be using the substances that He used. Since only men were chosen and ordained by the apostles, that is the way the sacrament was ordered. Using women for this would invalidate the sacrament and the Mass. If a woman is inserted into the apostolic line of succession, that would invalidate the whold line and all the ordinations after that would be invalid. That is why so many Anglicans are worried about their orders. According to some of them, ordaining women bishops would invalidate their ordinations and Masses so they are seeking safety in the Catholic church. It is not up to future popes to change the basic elements of the sacraments. Once something is a doctrine, it is here to stay. Anyone opposing it should find another church to go to because they would always be at odds with the true believers of the church. Also, the church favors unity with the Orthodox someday and putting women into the priesthood would ruin unity with the Orthodox forever.
mtngal25
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
You are comparing things such as torture, chronic illness, rape, etc. (all the evils that God is ultimately responsible for under Christian theology) to giving a child shots:eek::rolleyes::mad:
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Is that what Christian theology says? Don’t think that responsible is the right word. It connotes guilt, and who is to be his judge? There are two alternatives to a just and merciful god: one is fatalism, the other is to make man into a god. Heavy burden for thin shoulders.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Strawman:rolleyes:

Hardly.

What could be a more purely secular matter than Economics, yet the Pope feels it is his place to set the guidlines for this aspect of life too.

Here’s a link to an article on the subject:
onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/georgetown/2009/07/pope_benedict_on_economic_justice.html
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I don’t think of economics as “secular.” Economics tries to reduce everything to what can be counted, but because this is impossible, predictability is lacking. That’s because the human factor is always involved.
 
Not_Sure said:
It’s like saying the Pope banned men from having babies.
A man cannot possibly be pregnant, and a woman cannot possibly be a priest
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I’m guessing that this post will disappear just like anoy other that might present a dissenting opinion, but what the heck, I’ll try anyway.

WHY can’t women be priests? Because the CHURCH says so? Jesus honored women above all others. Jesus had no objection to having a woman in His inner circle. Because she isn’t depicted in Leonardo’s Last Supper doesn’t mean of Magdelene wasn’t there to hear the words, “Do this in memory of me.”

This body of men who make the rules allegedly in the name of Christ evidently are not cognizant of the fact that young men are NOT flocking to the priesthood, yet the need for priests grows with the population.

It would appear that the opinion that women are somehow less worthy than men is the prime objective of the Bishops and the Vatican. Are they so fearful of their own place in the hierarchy that they would band together to prevent growth?
 
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AamahJones said:
I’m guessing that this post will disappear just like anoy other that might present a dissenting opinion, but what the heck, I’ll try anyway.

WHY can’t women be priests? Because the CHURCH says so? Jesus honored women above all others. Jesus had no objection to having a woman in His inner circle. Because she isn’t depicted in Leonardo’s Last Supper doesn’t mean of Magdelene wasn’t there to hear the words, “Do this in memory of me.”

This body of men who make the rules allegedly in the name of Christ evidently are not cognizant of the fact that young men are NOT flocking to the priesthood, yet the need for priests grows with the population.

It would appear that the opinion that women are somehow less worthy than men is the prime objective of the Bishops and the Vatican. Are they so fearful of their own place in the hierarchy that they would band together to prevent growth?
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With respect,

The answer to your question is explained in the postings of this thread. Did you read them before posting that question? Most of what was posted is based upon the Magesterium. Its not open for debate for Catholics. You either accept it for what it is or you are not in communion with the Catholic Church.
 
RobbyS said:
Is that what Christian theology says? Don’t think that responsible is the right word. It connotes guilt, and who is to be his judge? There are two alternatives to a just and merciful god: one is fatalism, the other is to make man into a god. Heavy burden for thin shoulders.
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If interpreted honestly.
If God is ultimately responsible for everything, then He is ultimately responsible for everything bad too.

Remember, He’s supposed to be all-knowing AND all-powerful.
So this (the world as we know it) is exactly what He meant to do.
 
RobbyS said:
I don’t think of economics as “secular.” Economics tries to reduce everything to what can be counted, but because this is impossible, predictability is lacking. That’s because the human factor is always involved.
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If business is not secular, if it is a matter of faith and morals, then how can anything be considered outside that category?

And if nothing is outside that category…

Then the Catholic Church really does claim authority over everything.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
If business is not secular, if it is a matter of faith and morals, then how can anything be considered outside that category?

And if nothing is outside that category…

Then the Catholic Church really does claim authority over everything.
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You say that as if it’s a surprise to you that Catholics wouldn’t consider anything outside the realm of faith and morals, almost as if you’re trying trip someone up with some kind of damning evidence against them. Of course we look at everything through a lense of morality and faith.

But it’s not so much claiming authority over everything as it is claiming the authoritative teaching on everything. I know that sounds like splitting hairs, but as Catholics, the notion of separating our religious life from other aspects of our life is a little ridiculous; indeed, instead of saying that our religious life is an aspect of our life as a whole, it is more accurate to say that everything else–our family, our spouse, our work, our business, our friends, our entertainment–is simply an aspect of our religious life!

So, given that we try to fill all parts of our lives with God, then of course the Church from whom we have learned about God is going to play a big role in guiding how we live all parts of our lives. How do we deal with an employee who steals when we know that his family is in dire straights? How do we decide which employees need to be let go when budget cuts are being made? Sure, these are business questions, but can you honestly deny that there is a moral element to them?
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
If business is not secular, if it is a matter of faith and morals, then how can anything be considered outside that category?

And if nothing is outside that category…

Then the Catholic Church really does claim authority over everything.
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I’m a bit surprised that this would puzzle you. Its not a matter of the Catholic Church claiming authority over everything. It is a matter of God having given us guidance on how to relate to one another. You know that stuff about loving your neighbor as yourself, helping the poor, visiting the sick or the imprisoned, etc.

Economic activity is simply one form of human behavior. As such, the Catholic Church offers guidance on how to conduct ourselves in a manner consistent with God’s commandments.

There is an old stereotype of the Christian who goes to church on Sunday to pray and listen to God’s word. Then, on Monday he mistreats his employees, cheats his suppliers, exploits his customers etc. Catholics, and many Christians reject the compartmentalization of religion. Its not just for Sunday.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
If business is not secular, if it is a matter of faith and morals, then how can anything be considered outside that category?

And if nothing is outside that category…

Then the Catholic Church really does claim authority over everything.
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Annnnnnnnd your point is what exactly?:rolleyes: Do you think that God wants us to be Catholics from 9:30am to 10:30am every Sunday, or to live in a Christ like way all the time? The fact that we strive for this but come up short isn’t the church’s failing, its ours. That’s why the Sacrament of Reconciliation is so important.😉
 
AamahJones said:
I’m guessing that this post will disappear just like anoy other that might present a dissenting opinion, but what the heck, I’ll try anyway.
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This is a peculiar comment, given the fact that this thread has had 28 pages of dissenting opinions.

If a post disappears, it is because it has been uncharitable and/or violates forum rules.

To say that only assenting opinions are presented in the CAFs is an uninformed position.
 
Dale_M said:
I’m a bit surprised that this would puzzle you. Its not a matter of the Catholic Church claiming authority over everything. It is a matter of God having given us guidance on how to relate to one another. You know that stuff about loving your neighbor as yourself, helping the poor, visiting the sick or the imprisoned, etc.

Economic activity is simply one form of human behavior. As such, the Catholic Church offers guidance on how to conduct ourselves in a manner consistent with God’s commandments.

There is an old stereotype of the Christian who goes to church on Sunday to pray and listen to God’s word. Then, on Monday he mistreats his employees, cheats his suppliers, exploits his customers etc. Catholics, and many Christians reject the compartmentalization of religion. Its not just for Sunday.
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Jesus addressed this specifically in the parable of the forgiveness of debts.
 
Aquila_Lucis said:
**You say that as if it’s a surprise to you that Catholics wouldn’t consider anything outside the realm of faith and morals, almost as if you’re trying trip someone up with some kind of damning evidence against them. Of course we look at everything through a lense of morality and faith. **
But it’s not so much claiming authority over everything as it is claiming the authoritative teaching on everything. I know that sounds like splitting hairs, but as Catholics, the notion of separating our religious life from other aspects of our life is a little ridiculous; indeed, instead of saying that our religious life is an aspect of our life as a whole, it is more accurate to say that everything else–our family, our spouse, our work, our business, our friends, our entertainment–is simply an aspect of our religious life!

So, given that we try to fill all parts of our lives with God, then of course the Church from whom we have learned about God is going to play a big role in guiding how we live all parts of our lives. How do we deal with an employee who steals when we know that his family is in dire straights? How do we decide which employees need to be let go when budget cuts are being made? Sure, these are business questions, but can you honestly deny that there is a moral element to them?
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I was kind of.
Tantum ergo said that Popes only claimed to speak infallibly on matters of faith and morals.
I was pointing out that under Catholicism, that is no real limitation.
 
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