Pope reaffirms ban on women priests

[AngryAtheist8]

God is in charge is the only answer a believing Catholic can give you. The Pope with the Bishops, teach the truth on matters of faith and morals guided by the Holy Spirit (God). You can’t separate God from His Church. You can’t say that men make up the rules for their own benefit because that is the same as saying that God doesn’t guide His Church. If you don’t believe that God guides the Catholic Church then you don’t become a member and you don’t accept how the Church is run since you can’t see the Church’s reasoning behind Her teachings.

I can see the reasoning, there simply appears to be no good reason to believe it.
Saying that the Pope and Bishops don’t lead the Church is to deny the hierarchal nature of the organization.
But even the Church admits that it has a hierarchy (link to source: newadvent.org/cathen/07322c.htm).

 

[Ranp]

Nowhere in Bible states that women can’t be priests. The Biblical does show examples of priesthood is reserved for men.

Please remember that for the Catholic Church the Word of God includes both Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition. Women absolutely cannot be ordained into the priesthood. It does not matter how much you are I disagree with it, or even if the Pope disagrees with it, it is not going to change.

Ran

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Please remember that for the Catholic Church the Word of God includes both Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition. Women absolutely cannot be ordained into the priesthood. It does not matter how much you are I disagree with it, or even if the Pope disagrees with it, it is not going to change.

Ran

As I have said before, these would-be priestesses would be better off (or at least happier) simply leaving the Church.

 

[PRmerger]

I have always thought that it was a bit wierd and disingenous to refer to the Catholic Church as a mother.
Its an organization, not a living thing.

As with all things approaching the numinous, words are only an approximation.

It is the best representation we have of what the Church is–a mother, in the spiritual sense.

Now, someone who has an inability to think in the abstract may find it puzzling and think, “How can it be a mother? Does it have breasts? Does it have a motherinlaw? Does it have a obstetrician?”

It is best, when discussing things spiritual, that one be able to understand analogies.

Moreover, its an organization founded and led by men (with a male god).

Well, 'tis true that Jesus was a male. But it’s absolutely incorrect to say that Christians worship a male god.

 

[vsedriver]

I can see the reasoning, there simply appears to be no good reason to believe it.

I never said that the Pope and the Bishop don’t lead the Church. I said they do it under the guidance of God. Therefore I believe the structure of the Church is as God wants it to be. I believe that the teachings on faith and morals that the Pope with the Bishops teach are as God wants it to be.

Priesthood is reserved for males is a teaching on faith. It is not about power, authority, or equality. It is about what is the proper matter for the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Just as bread and wine are the proper matter for the Sacrament of the Eucharist and a man and a woman are proper matter for the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

There is no ban on women priests because there is no such thing as a woman priest according to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[vsedriver]

As I have said before, these would-be priestesses would be better off (or at least happier) simply leaving the Church.

Why would they be better off leaving the Church? How would it be better to leave the one true faith?

They might be happier in the short term… but we are here to prepare for the long term.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Why would they be better off leaving the Church? How would it be better to leave the one true faith?

They might be happier in the short term… but we are here to prepare for the long term.

Exactly. What is ‘happiness’ anyway? Lots of people are ‘happy’ when they fornicate, steal, lie, cheat, even kill. . .in that by doing these things they achieve some ‘want’ or ‘desire’ for themselves. Doesn’t make what they do right, though.

True happiness consists in doing God’s will because what He wills is always perfect, just, true, and good. . .

As opposed to imperfect and false ‘earthly’ happiness which is based on selfishness and purely ephemeral feelings of that SELF, and not with regard to any inkling or desire to give truth and goodness to others.

I certainly doubt that the young man urging the young woman to ‘enjoy’ sex outside of marriage is considering her long term ‘good’ or happiness. Sure, he might THINK that he ‘loves’ her, and that the sex is a way to ‘show’ that love, and so it will bring them ‘happiness’. . .but does he want that happiness for all time or just for as long as he wants to have sex with HER? when he grows accustomed to her and then thinks that the relationship has run its course because he now wants sex with another, will he tell her that the HAPPINESS they had in the relationship before he dumped her was worth it?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

As with all things approaching the numinous, words are only an approximation.

It is the best representation we have of what the Church is–a mother, in the spiritual sense.

Now, someone who has an inability to think in the abstract may find it puzzling and think, “How can it be a mother? Does it have breasts? Does it have a motherinlaw? Does it have a obstetrician?”

It is best, when discussing things spiritual, that one be able to understand analogies.

Well, 'tis true that Jesus was a male. But it’s absolutely incorrect to say that Christians worship a male god.

You worship Jesus Christ.
Jesus was a man/male.
Jesus was also God.
Therefore you worship a male (or at least masculine) god.

Moreover, I can understand the analogies, I simply don’t think that they fit (for the reasons I have already stated).

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I never said that the Pope and the Bishop don’t lead the Church. I said they do it under the guidance of God. Therefore I believe the structure of the Church is as God wants it to be. I believe that the teachings on faith and morals that the Pope with the Bishops teach are as God wants it to be.

Priesthood is reserved for males is a teaching on faith. It is not about power, authority, or equality. It is about what is the proper matter for the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Just as bread and wine are the proper matter for the Sacrament of the Eucharist and a man and a woman are proper matter for the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

There is no ban on women priests because there is no such thing as a woman priest according to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Then the leaders of the Church actually are male priests, which was my point.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Why would they be better off leaving the Church? How would it be better to leave the one true faith?

They might be happier in the short term… but we are here to prepare for the long term.

Because then they could join an organization that feels women are fit to lead (even in a spiritual setting).

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Exactly. What is ‘happiness’ anyway? Lots of people are ‘happy’ when they fornicate, steal, lie, cheat, even kill. . .in that by doing these things they achieve some ‘want’ or ‘desire’ for themselves. Doesn’t make what they do right, though.

True happiness consists in doing God’s will because what He wills is always perfect, just, true, and good. . .

As opposed to imperfect and false ‘earthly’ happiness which is based on selfishness and purely ephemeral feelings of that SELF, and not with regard to any inkling or desire to give truth and goodness to others.

I certainly doubt that the young man urging the young woman to ‘enjoy’ sex outside of marriage is considering her long term ‘good’ or happiness. Sure, he might THINK that he ‘loves’ her, and that the sex is a way to ‘show’ that love, and so it will bring them ‘happiness’. . .but does he want that happiness for all time or just for as long as he wants to have sex with HER? when he grows accustomed to her and then thinks that the relationship has run its course because he now wants sex with another, will he tell her that the HAPPINESS they had in the relationship before he dumped her was worth it?

So, your version of happiness (i.e.* true* happiness) has nothing to do with actually being happy.
Then why not simply use a different (and more accurate) word instead?

 

[PRmerger]

You worship Jesus Christ.
Jesus was a man/male.
Jesus was also God.
Therefore you worship a male (or at least masculine) god.

The correct way to look at it, Angry, is that we worship Jesus Christ, who is God become Man.

God, the Father, is not male.

 

[PRmerger]

Because then they could join an organization that feels women are fit to lead (even in a spiritual setting).

Women ARE fit to lead in the Catholic Church. Are you not aware of women abbesses? Women lay directors? Women Directors of Religious Education? Women principals of Catholic schools?

Women cannot be priests. That’s different than women are not allowed to lead.

 

[BenedictFTW]

God bless Benedict XVI. There are so many apostates in this age. It must be akin to the time of the Protestant Revolt. Trouble is, these now remain within the Church. God help us all. Please pray for the Pope at this time.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

So, your version of happiness (i.e.* true* happiness) has nothing to do with actually being happy.
Then why not simply use a different (and more accurate) word instead?

I didn’t say it had NOTHING to do with actually being ‘happy’. (Again, you ‘assumed’ you knew what I meant and proceeded to proclaim, “So YOUR VERSION” etc. etc. instead of saying, “Do you mean that>”) Sigh.

Why should I have to use a different word? True happiness may encompass ‘being happy’, but it is not limited to ONLY ‘feeling happy.’

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Because then they could join an organization that feels women are fit to lead (even in a spiritual setting).

ARE you assuming that an organization that ‘allows’ women to lead is somehow an organization that is more TRUE than an organization with a male-only priesthood?

So are you assuming that the Catholic and Orthodox and the conservative Jewish and certain other Protestant Christian faiths are ‘less true’ than 'faiths which ‘let’ women lead, and you’re claiming that a HALLMARK of TRUTH is related to ‘equality of leadership position?’

Where did that idea that this is more true or right come from? Where did you derive the universal truth that ‘equality of leadership’ is a truth?

And if it ISN’t A UNIVERSAL TRUTH, or is only true for those groups which want it (RELATIVISM), then why are you attacking the Catholic (and Orthodox, conservative Jews, etc.) on a principle of absolutism which you yourself reject?

 

[vsedriver]

Then the leaders of the Church actually are male priests, which was my point.

you presume that only the male clergy performs a leadership role. That is not the case. Mother Teresa and Mother Angelica are examples of women leaders in the Church. To say that they played no leadership role because they weren’t ordained priests is nonsense. They had great influence whether or not they ever sat on the Chair of Peter. As there are many, many ordained priests who played a far less leadership role than either of these two nuns.

 

[vsedriver]

Because then they could join an organization that feels women are fit to lead (even in a spiritual setting).

yet you fail to show that leadership is “exclusive” to the clerical role. Leadership can take many forms in an organization. Including in the form of advising.

 

[vsedriver]

So, your version of happiness (i.e.* true* happiness) has nothing to do with actually being happy.
Then why not simply use a different (and more accurate) word instead?

‘feelings’ come and go. True happiness is permanent.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
You worship Jesus Christ.
Jesus was a man/male.
Jesus was also God.
Therefore you worship a male (or at least masculine) god.

The correct way to look at it, Angry, is that we worship Jesus Christ, who is God become Man.

God, the Father, is not male.

Exactly.
You worship a male god.