Pope reaffirms ban on women priests

[AngryAtheist8]

Very good.

To AngryAtheist: Are you here to seek to understand what we believe? Or are you here to peddle your views that atheists are somehow superior because they don’t discriminate against women?

Well, no matter what you say, we acknowledge the facts. There are some things women can’t do. There are also some things men can’t do. And there’s nothing wrong with being frank about that. If you think that’s discrimination, by God, we’re sexist and proud of it. That’s not the definition of sexism. But you go ahead and believe what you want.

I have already said why I am here at CAF in this very thread.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I suspect that AA understands the Catholic view on the matter easily enough; he / she simply can’t seem to let the matter die.

Why, AA? Are you just trying to get through our thick, Catholic skulls that we’re plain ol’ wrong, no matter what we say? Do you do it out of some concern on our part? It can’t be for concern of the women in the Catholic Church, 'cause many here have stated that they’re happy, and nobody is forcing any woman to be Catholic at gunpoint.

Are you just fond of arguing for its own sake? What is it?

I am male actually.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I would have to tweak the above comment to this: “There are some things women can’t be. There are also some things men can’t be.”

The priesthood is not about what they do, but about what they *are. *

For, to be sure, a woman can do all the things that a priest does. And perhaps even better–with more compassion, with more insight, with more empathy.

And that is why there’s no reason a woman can’t be a Protestant minister–for what a Protestant minister does is preach (a woman can do that!), counsel (a woman can do that!), manage a parish (a woman can do that!)…

But the priesthood involves an ONTOLOGICAL change. At ordination, the universe is changed forever! What existed 10 seconds prior to the confection of the sacrament exists no more for posterity. He was not a priest. And now he is a priest. Forever. Ontologically.

So a woman can’t *be *certain things. But she can certainly do anything a man can.

Not according to conservatives like Portrait.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
There’s more to it than that.
If I was a parent (female or otherwise) and I had a daughter I would not want her brought up in a religion that discriminates against women.
For that matter, if I had sons I wouldn’t want them brought up to think of women as inferior

If these women really believe Catholicism regards them as lesser, there are all sorts of reasons that they should leave. Especially if their mothers.

THere is no discrimination,

You’re just angry because you’re wrong and the Catholic church is right. And you’re probably also angry because the gates of hell have not and will not prevail against her.

This made me laugh.
Thank you sir I needed that:thumbsup:

 

[Lochias]

Indeed, if there were talking going on here. But you’re simply here to argue, which you’ve admitted to, finding it “intellectually stimulating”, which is really just code for “gettin’ your jollies at pushing other peoples’ buttons.”

You come here with the intent to demean and belittle, telling us things like “pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes”, when it’s your own rather small and sad intentions that are so pitifully apparent to the rest of the people here. Disagreement with our values and beliefs is one thing…belittling them simply because it cranks your cage is juvenile, at best.

I will repeat: Echo chamber or not, the kind of person that you have made yourself out to be would really do better in some other forum or place where hijinks that were funny in the 6th grade are appreciated. You’ve got a bit of growin’ up to do, son.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Indeed, if there were talking going on here. But you’re simply here to argue, which you’ve admitted to, finding it “intellectually stimulating”, which is really just code for “gettin’ your jollies at pushing other peoples’ buttons.”

You come here with the intent to demean and belittle, telling us things like “pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes”, when it’s your own rather small and sad intentions that are so pitifully apparent to the rest of the people here

. Disagreement with our values and beliefs is one thing…belittling them simply because it cranks your cage is juvenile, at best.

I will repeat: Echo chamber or not, the kind of person that you have made yourself out to be would really do better in some other forum or place where hijinks that were funny in the 6th grade are appreciated. You’ve got a bit of growin’ up to do, son.

Not the best insults I have ever heard.
But I will give you an E for effort

On a more serious note…

If you really believe that my actions at CAF are juvenile by the regular standards of the forum, you have obviously not been paying attention. The only reason that I am so often called on what I say here is because I usually argue with mainstream (i.e. conservative Catholic) opinion here.

Moreover, I have been complimented on several occasions by Catholic posters for pointing out the holes in arguments by people such as Portrait who are promoting misogynistic viewpoints.

 

[Lochias]

Not the best insults I have ever heard.
But I will give you an E for effort

On a more serious note…

If you really believe that my actions at CAF are juvenile by the regular standards of the forum, you have obviously not been paying attention. The only reason that I am so often called on what I say here is because I usually argue with mainstream (i.e. conservative Catholic) opinion here.

Moreover, I have been complimented on several occasions by Catholic posters for pointing out the holes in arguments by people such as Portrait who are promoting misogynistic viewpoints.

I give up. Ignored.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Its worth noting that even if the Biblical God were real He would still not be a very nice guy.

Creating people solely for the purpose of torturing them forever (remember He’s all-powerful and all-knowing, so He knew what would happen).

Worshipping such a brutal and selfish being forever in Heaven would probably be better than being tortured forever. But only as the lesser evil, not as a positive good.

What “Biblical God” would that be, AA?

I read the Bible. I find the God of the Bible (the entire Bible, not cherry picked words and verses taken out of context) to be a loving Father who offers everyone eternal life --on their own terms, yet, not forcing them into something they do not want!

But of course, I’m Catholic. We do not simply use ‘the Bible’ as THE authority. A book cannot interpret itself and cannot be an authority. We have a Person as Authority (the Holy Spirit) who can interpret and be an authority. We have Sacred Tradition and the Magesterium, the ‘three legged stool’, we have faith and reason.

We aren’t prisoners of our own mind and our own experience, with nothing and no one to help us to learn and grow. Thank God!

 

[LucyLight]

Not the best insults I have ever heard.
But I will give you an E for effort

On a more serious note…

If you really believe that my actions at CAF are juvenile by the regular standards of the forum, you have obviously not been paying attention. The only reason that I am so often called on what I say here is because I usually argue with mainstream (i.e. conservative Catholic) opinion here.

Moreover, I have been complimented on several occasions by Catholic posters for pointing out the holes in arguments by people such as Portrait who are promoting misogynistic viewpoints.

I think that you are actually quite civil even when you have several posters personally attacking you. I also think that a lot of the questions you raise are questions that other Catholics have so the threads that you participate in tend to be pretty informative. As to the last paragraph I am sooo with you on that. You do Catholics a favor when you go after those posters with a misogynistic view who do not represent what the Catholic church stands for.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Not according to conservatives like Portrait.

I haven’t read much from Portrait, but he is one person, one male. You’ve heard from a lot of other Catholic men who don’t espouse Portrait’s position (along with a lot of us women) so I’m just curious as to why you would think one person’s opinion which is NOT supported by actual teaching (the catechism, the USCCB, anything the Pope has said --John Paul II or Benedict XVI especially in recent times–)is worth worrying about.

You should instead be talking with the majority of us Catholics who are all for the education of women and indeed the best educated women in Christian history were educated through the Church (in the very limited literate world prior to the printing press, most of the people who could read and write were priests or nuns.) And THEY were the people who taught either the nobility (who sent their children to learn), or --something which really should be better known–who helped to educate children across ALL SOCIOECONOMIC CLASSES if the children showed ABILITY–how to read and write.

 

[PRmerger]

Of course not.
Unless Jesus replaced all his followers with robots in the future or something:shrug:

Only in the way that professors replace students with robots.

Professors take the raw material of students and teach them, so that the students then conform their views to the truth.

Similarly, God proclaims a truth.

BY ALL LOGIC AND REASON one must acknowledge that what God has revealed will not be exactly what the human creature likes.

So, you, Angry, must acknowledge that if there is a God then any believer is going to have to change conform his views.

Not find a church that agrees with his own views.

That would be the definition of creating a god in one’s own image, would it not?

Do you agree with this, Angry? That shopping for a church that conforms to one’s own beliefs is the exact opposite paradigm of what a believer ought to do, if one believes in God?

 

[PRmerger]

A Forum is not the same as a religion.

'Tis true, this.

You seem to be getting the concept that religion is about truth, and not about opinion.

Forums are about discussing opinions.
Religion is about truth.

So it’s fine, as you say, to come to a forum and express differing opinions.

And, as you acknowledge, a forum is not the same as a religion. Truth matters in religion and not all opinions are true.

You’re getting it! :extrahappy::bounce::dancing:

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Not the best insults I have ever heard.
But I will give you an E for effort

On a more serious note…

If you really believe that my actions at CAF are juvenile by the regular standards of the forum, you have obviously not been paying attention. The only reason that I am so often called on what I say here is because I usually argue with mainstream (i.e. conservative Catholic) opinion here.

Moreover, I have been complimented on several occasions by Catholic posters for pointing out the holes in arguments by people such as Portrait who are promoting misogynistic viewpoints.

I give up. Ignored.

Fine.

The truth was you weren’t giving me much to respond to.
If you cannot stand a little snarkiness in reponse to your insults that says more about you than me:shrug:

And I did honestly find your post funny.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Of course not.
Unless Jesus replaced all his followers with robots in the future or something

Only in the way that professors replace students with robots.

Professors take the raw material of students and teach them, so that the students then conform their views to the truth.

Similarly, God proclaims a truth.

BY ALL LOGIC AND REASON one must acknowledge that what God has revealed will not be exactly what the human creature likes.

So, you, Angry, must acknowledge that if there is a God then any believer is going to have to change conform his views.

Not find a church that agrees with his own views.

That would be the definition of creating a god in one’s own image, would it not?

Do you agree with this, Angry? That shopping for a church that conforms to one’s own beliefs is the exact opposite paradigm of what a believer ought to do, if one believes in God?

As someone who has actually been in a cult (and has personal experience with brainwashing), I cannot take this statement seriously on any level.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

'Tis true, this.

You seem to be getting the concept that religion is about truth, and not about opinion.

Forums are about discussing opinions.
Religion is about truth.

So it’s fine, as you say, to come to a forum and express differing opinions.

And, as you acknowledge, a forum is not the same as a religion. Truth matters in religion and not all opinions are true.

You’re getting it! :extrahappy::bounce::dancing:

What truth was the Aztec religion about?

 

[vsedriver]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8

As I have said before:
These would-be priestesses would be better off joining a religion that has more respect for the capabilities of women

It doesn’t think much of women’s abilities as spiritual leaders.

you don’t have to be a priest to be a spiritual leader in the Catholic church.

 

[vsedriver]

How is it dishonest to say that the Catholic Church doesn’t think women are good enough to be priests?

because the ban on women priests isn’t about their capabilities. For a sacrament to be valid it requires proper matter and proper form. A woman is not proper matter for Holy Orders just as two men aren’t proper matter for the Matrimony.

 

[vsedriver]

What truth was the Aztec religion about?

that there is a power greater than themselves.

 

[PRmerger]

What truth was the Aztec religion about?

How about the existence of a supernatural universe?

And that art reflects man’s worship of a deity?

And that we have an inherent desire to know the numinous?

Now, of course, to the degree that the Aztec religion proclaimed falsehoods is the degree, naturally, to which they were wrong. So no need to ask if their belief in human sacrifice was good.

 

[PRmerger]

Only in the way that professors replace students with robots.

Professors take the raw material of students and teach them, so that the students then conform their views to the truth.

As someone who has actually been in a cult (and has personal experience with brainwashing), I cannot take this statement seriously on any level.

That’s funny, Angry.

You believe that when professors teach students they are brainwashing them?