Pope: 'Responsible parenthood' doesn't mean birth control

[MarcoPolo]

But he called the woman irresponsible who was having her 8th child when the last 7 were delivered by caesarian.
She and her spouse created this child within the Church’s teachings. This is not irresponsibility. It is welcoming another child into a Catholic family and into our Church.

I am having a hard time with Pope Francis ideas. But I pray for him and for my own understanding.

You aren’t obligated to believe a Pope’s opinion on calling a woman “irresponsible” who had 7 caesarians. What God calls her to is not within the purview of his theological protection.

 

[openmind77]

Full text of Pope’s in-flight interview from Manila to Rome

Thanks very much. He does talk about ‘Resonsible Parenthood’ but I didn’t read a word about birth control. Did I miss something? Can anyone quote what he said about birth control?

 

[ProVobis]

Noted from interview.

There is a beautiful prayer in the old missal (1962, editor’s note) for tears. It went more or less like this: ‘O Lord, you who have made it so that Moses with his cane made water flow from a stone, make it so from the rock that is my heart, that water of tears may flow.’ It’s a beautiful prayer.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

I was born in the mid-1950s. The average number of kids in my neighborhood and for miles around was 2. No one told my parents they had to have more, and they were practicing Catholics.

I agree.

I know many from a large families who have parents who pulled it off, but were also parents who turned their homes into closed-off, mini Vatican Cities.

I don’t like the “rabbits” statement, but I can contextualize it because it’s something that someone in Argentina or western Europe would say.

 

[LongingSoul]

I have a suspicion that the pope is being gravely misquoted here. I have no proof to support that but it just seems odd for the successor of St. Peter to be criticizing parents and specifically mothers who choose to give their children life. I can understand that he wants to make sure that children get a good upbringing but that shouldn’t include talk about “breading like rabbits”. And, I don’t like how he spoke of the woman with 7 children negatively. She should be praised for giving life to those children. It seems to me like God would never create a human being without willing it. No child is ever an accident (which this article is making it sound like).

“Some think that – excuse the language – that in order to be good Catholics, we have to be like rabbits.”

Sometimes I think Pope Francis might lurk at CAF in the morning before heading out for interviews because he often addresses something being discussed here.

He is targeting that oft promoted here error that NFP is only to be used in extreme circumstances and that we should keep having babies until the menopause. Ideological breeders often criticise smaller families and have a sense of superior faith. It’s just wrong and not Catholic.

Certain people are made for big families because they are super maternal or paternal and equipped with the capacity to meet every childs need.

The 7 C sections comment was also targeted at the caesarian culture of Argentina rather than the 7 children per se. Pope Francis has ideologues firmly in his sights.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The 7 C sections comment was also targeted at the caesarian culture of Argentina rather than the 7 children per se.

I did not read that he qualified the statement as you describe. Did he?

 

[LongingSoul]

I did not read that he qualified the statement as you describe. Did he?

He didn’t but Argentina is one of the most prolific caesarian cultures in the world and it is a real problem ideology from a Catholic point of view.

 

[MarcoPolo]

He didn’t but Argentina is one of the most prolific caesarian cultures in the world and it is a real problem ideology from a Catholic point of view.

Ok, well I think he should make reference to Argentina if he meant that because his statement can otherwise cause much confusion. What is the ideological problem with a C section?

 

[Lormar]

I was born in the mid-1950s. The average number of kids in my neighborhood and for miles around was 2. No one told my parents they had to have more, and they were practicing Catholics.

Ed

I was born slightly earlier, and the average family size in my Catholic neighborhood was three children. One family that had six. Another family had fourteen children. The youngest member of the latter family was a classmate of mine. Those were the two exceptions.

 

[LongingSoul]

Ok, well I think he should make reference to Argentina if he meant that because his statement can otherwise cause much confusion. What is the ideological problem with a C section?

In Argentina C sections are a kind of status symbol. They are chosen by the wealthy and those who can scrape together money as a cosmetic procedure to avoid the dirtiness of natural child birth and to preserve areas of the body that would normally be loosened up by natural birth. It is seen as the first option in childbirth rather than an emergency procedure.

 

[Faith1960]

I was so delighted to read the Pope’s comments that Catholics do not have to be like rabbits. There are so many reasons why one would not want to have many children. I loved the tone and the comments about the women with 7 children as well. Thank you Pope Francis!

I love me some Pope Francis!

 

[Faith1960]

I was born in the mid-1950s. The average number of kids in my neighborhood and for miles around was 2. No one told my parents they had to have more, and they were practicing Catholics.

Ed

The largest family in my neighborhood growing up in the 60s and 70s had 9 kids. The older ones were on drugs and the younger ones were locked out of the house during hot summers while mom layed out in the sun in her swimming suit.

 

[OraLabora]

But he called the woman irresponsible who was having her 8th child when the last 7 were delivered by caesarian.
She and her spouse created this child within the Church’s teachings. This is not irresponsibility. It is welcoming another child into a Catholic family and into our Church.

I am having a hard time with Pope Francis ideas. But I pray for him and for my own understanding.

My wife is a family doctor who had a large obstetrics practice. We in fact discussed this issue at dinner. You may not be aware but often once a woman has a cesarian, it is often necessary that subsequent deliveries also be by cesarian. Sometimes a subsequent delivery, under certain circumstances and with good local resources, can be a natural delivery. But that may not be the case away from tertiary centres.

Moreover, the risk of a major (and perhaps fatal) mishap increases with each subsequent cesarian.

The Pope said, according to Vatican Insider: “I scolded a woman who was on her eight pregnancy and had seven cesarians. ‘Do you want your children to become orphans? You must not push it with God…’”

Notwithstanding any possible translation inaccuracies or misunderstandings, I would have to say his comment is spot-on. We all have a responsibility to take care of ourselves especially if we have the care of others entrusted to us.

 

[graciew]

In Argentina C sections are a kind of status symbol. They are chosen by the wealthy and those who can scrape together money as a cosmetic procedure to avoid the dirtiness of natural child birth and to preserve areas of the body that would normally be loosened up by natural birth. It is seen as the first option in childbirth rather than an emergency procedure.

Hi Longing Soul , just one comment cause I can imagine where this small misunderstanding is coming from. C sections are not related to status nor aesthetics here (in fact aesthetically they are not “favourable” )and are more frequent in private hospitals. Yet "insurances " ( ours is a different system) cover them. So no money scraping here.
Aesthetic surgery is a " trend " ( facial ,etc) and it is not always covered by insurance.
I don t mean to disrupt the thread ,just clarifying for you. The vast majority prefers natural birth ,true is C sections are above average here , mainly in the capital city.
Btw you do know a lot !

 

[LongingSoul]

Hi Longing Soul , just one comment cause I can imagine where this small misunderstanding is coming from. C sections are not related to status nor aesthetics here (in fact aesthetically they are not “favourable” )and are more frequent in private hospitals. Yet "insurances " ( ours is a different system) cover them. So no money scraping here.
Aesthetic surgery is a " trend " ( facial ,etc) and it is not always covered by insurance.
I don t mean to disrupt the thread ,just clarifying for you. The vast majority prefers natural birth ,true is C sections are above average here , mainly in the capital city.
Btw you do know a lot !

Ahhh thankyou, graciew! I defer to your local knowledge and experience! I was going by the numerous links that referenced the high rates of C sections in Argentina and the speculation as to why. In Aus. C-sections are discouraged for anything other than emergencies and it seemed that Pope Francis was referencing a different culture surrounding C-sections over there in the example that he gave. I can’t say that it hasn’t happened here but I’ve never heard of anyone here having 7 C-sections. And cheers… you are very kind.

 

[NeedsMercy]

I love me some Pope Francis!

 

[Faith1960]

It kind of saddens me that he rubs some people the wrong way. I think he’s a breath of fresh air.

 

[LongingSoul]

It kind of saddens me that he rubs some people the wrong way. I think he’s a breath of fresh air.

Jesus rubbed lots of people up the wrong way. That is a measure of effectiveness of the fearlessly holy. I remember when Mother Teresa used to open her mouth sometimes and people thinking some light platitude would flow out and she just socked it right to them.

 

[ProVobis]

Jesus rubbed lots of people up the wrong way.

True, but people tend to get very fickle. One day they are parading you with palms and all that and several days later, they are screaming to crucify you. Sad really.

 

[SWolf]

“Some think that – excuse the language – that in order to be good Catholics, we have to be like rabbits.”

Sometimes I think Pope Francis might lurk at CAF in the morning before heading out for interviews because he often addresses something being discussed here.

He is targeting that oft promoted here error that NFP is only to be used in extreme circumstances and that we should keep having babies until the menopause. Ideological breeders often criticise smaller families and have a sense of superior faith. It’s just wrong and not Catholic.

Certain people are made for big families because they are super maternal or paternal and equipped with the capacity to meet every childs need.

The 7 C sections comment was also targeted at the caesarian culture of Argentina rather than the 7 children per se. Pope Francis has ideologues firmly in his sights.

Humanae Vitae says there must be “Well Grounded Reasons”. I don’t want more kids is not a well grounded reason.

“If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained. (20)”

As is clear from the number of Catholics using contraceptives and the relative size of Catholic families, the “problem” of Catholics having too big of families is practically non-existent.

Also, “ideological breeders”? Seriously?