Pope: 'Responsible parenthood' doesn't mean birth control

[SWolf]

One of the posters who likes lists made a short summary of the attitudes that are on the attack in post #168…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=12682197#post12682197

I read through the posts. I don’t think that was a good assessment of the issues. I would recommend others read through the link and reach their own conclusions. Many people stated my view better than I could on this thread.

Since no convincing is happening here, I’m bowing out.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

12 percent? Show me the study.

Trussell J. Contraceptive failure in the United States.
Contraception. 2004;70:89-96.

nfp.marquette.edu/efficacy.php

There are those that use 24 and those that go as low as 1. Make of that what you will. The one I see most often used is 12.

 

[LongingSoul]

I read through the posts. I don’t think that was a good assessment of the issues. I would recommend others read through the link and reach their own conclusions. Many people stated my view better than I could on this thread.

Since no convincing is happening here, I’m bowing out.

Ok. Sorry you remain unconvinced that NFP is intrinsically open to life. Ta-ra.

 

[SWolf]

Trussell J. Contraceptive failure in the United States.
Contraception. 2004;70:89-96.

nfp.marquette.edu/efficacy.php

There are those that use 24 and those that go as low as 1. Make of that what you will. The one I see most often used is 12.

In general, the perfect use efficacy of the Marquette Method ranges from 1-2 unintended pregnancies per 100 women over 12 months of use, in other words 98-99% effective to avoid pregnancy when used correctly. The typical use efficacy for the Marquette Method ranges from 10-12 unintended pregnancies per 100 over 12 months of use, or in other words, 88-90% effective to avoid pregnancy when not always used correctly.

So when used incorrectly, it’s ineffective. When used correctly, it’s effective. Color me shocked.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Ideally a couple becomes in tune with the fertile signs and cycles through the natural need to space each child. When periodic abstinence has become part and parcel of the life of a married couple from day one, NFP is an effective and highly certain science.

From my observations, it seems much more difficult to those who are coming out of either contraception or providentialism not so much because of perceived ineffectiveness but because of the limitations to sex. People who’ve never embraced periodic abstinence in conducting their sexual activities have a heightened sense of entitlement to sexual satisfaction and resentment towards abstaining. We have to learn to value abstinence as a sacrifice for the good of the marriage rather than as a punishment of some sort.

It’s difficult for my wife because she has never had a period.

It is very easy for me to understand why couples breed like rabbits when they only thing they are left with is decades of abstinence or NFP. It’s very easy for men with no desire for a wife and family to just wave their hands and say abstain if you don’t want children.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

So when used incorrectly, it’s ineffective. When used correctly, it’s effective. Color me shocked.

Yes, and NFP is very difficult to use correctly. Thus my point that people who use a method that is very difficult will end up looking like they breed excessively. When somebody is attempting something difficult you can be a little more understanding when they fail.

 

[TCEL]

It’s difficult for my wife because she has never had a period.

It is very easy for me to understand why couples breed like rabbits when they only thing they are left with is decades of abstinence or NFP. It’s very easy for men with no desire for a wife and family to just wave their hands and say abstain if you don’t want children.

I’m sorry to hear that about your wife. She actually sounds like she would benefit a great deal from the experts in NFP who are trained in addressing fertility/OBGYN challenges. They helped me with my cycles. Not perfect, but better.

 

[AP4Him]

12 percent? Show me the study.

With actual use, not perfect use, this number is about right.

After having NFP fail with perfect use, I researched the studies, over analyzed my charts…even with perfect use, and learned that the 6-day fertile window is totally rubbish for some couples…even with perfect use you may have a baby that breaks all the rules you are taught about the 6-day fertile window. My last baby-well, my chart will befuddle any NFP instructor. It should not have happened. But it did. It’s ok. We love him. Anyhow, still not a reason to use any form of artificial birth control. The answer is to abstain. BUT, I am bitter that the church is not more honest with this. They tell you that NFP is not that big of a sacrifice, it is only like a week per month. Not true for us. NFP means a 3-4 day window for us(I have a crazy short luteal phase), ONLY after the fertile phase(so NO intercourse during pre-ovulatory phase EVER) has ended and 4 days of a temp shift just to be sure. Sometimes abstaining is needed for months at a time because breastfeeding has skewed our charts… I am basing all this not only on the NFP science but on my individual charts and the knowledge I have gained from my ovulatory patterns over 11 years of charting.

We have to remember that these studies are not as well controlled as we would like them to be for that 99% efficacy rate to really be true…

Some of the couples in the studies only have intercourse after the pre-ovulatory phase, greatly skewing the results because it is much less likely to have an accident during that time, some couple’s have underlying infertility, etc.

Anyhow, please look at this summary-it has some good info and gives you more than just the 99% efficacy rate-it shows you the ‘actual use’ efficacy numbers as well.
usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/natural-family-planning/medical-research/upload/cmr-2003-v14-03-04-summer-fall.pdf

So, these facts…why I am annoyed with Pope Francis’s rabbits comment-this lady needs to asbtain to truly be sure, but he won’t say that. No one will. They make NFP sound like a super effective, easy method. That is not always true. Tell us it can be hard, require absolute abstaining at times, and them give us support and encouragement to live through these sacrifices.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I’m sorry to hear that about your wife. She actually sounds like she would benefit a great deal from the experts in NFP who are trained in addressing fertility/OBGYN challenges. They helped me with my cycles. Not perfect, but better.

I know it’s possible but I am not tripping. The silver lining is that conditions that make NFP impossible usually limit fertility. NFP couldn’t improve on the spacing between pregnancies that we get by using chance, every 4-5 years or so.

 

[LongingSoul]

I know it’s possible but I am not tripping. The silver lining is that conditions that make NFP impossible usually limit fertility. NFP couldn’t improve on the spacing between pregnancies that we get by using chance, every 4-5 years or so.

There’s always that silver lining when you look for it. Once my sister and I compared our charts because she was frustrated by having such short cycles and short luteal phases. It turned out that in a year where I’d had 11 luteal windows, they had had 17. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[choliks]

Here’s an interesting commentary on the matter…

opinion.inquirer.net/82006/about-rabbits-francis-knows-nonstop-mating-kills
Fr. Aris Sison:

He knew that the male rabbit (buck) has an insatiable sexual urge. The buck has no reproductive cycle; it is always in heat, ready to mate any time.

The female rabbit (doe) doesn’t have a heat cycle, either. It is always ready to mate all the time, more or less. A doe doesn’t have a menstrual cycle so there’s no special “window” during which pregnancy can occur.

There is no resistance from the doe. If you don’t separate the buck and doe after the first mating, the buck will attempt a second one, a third one, and so on.

Remember the Energizer bunny commercial? Rabbits keep going and going and going.

Even if the doe is already pregnant, the buck doesn’t care; it will continue to mate with her. Even if the doe has just given birth, the buck will attempt to mate with her again and again, Thus, they need to be separated. Otherwise, one—or both of them—could die from sheer exhaustion due to nonstop mating.

Johnny Filart, a friend and a renowned pet breeder, confirms this. He had a traumatic first-time experience with his imported and expensive male Holland Lop rabbit that he left with a female. After an hour, the male was dead.

Rabbits mate because they have the urge. There’s no love. They don’t think. They don’t have the capacity to discern. They just do it.

During the inflight interview with journalists aboard the Philippine Airlines flight from Manila to Rome on Jan. 19, Pope Francis didn’t exactly say, “Catholics shouldn’t breed like rabbits.” Responding to a question from Christoph Schmidt, the Holy Father answered, “God gives you means to be responsible. Some think that—excuse the language—that in order to be good Catholics, we have to be like rabbits. No.”

Read more: opinion.inquirer.net/82006/about-rabbits-francis-knows-nonstop-mating-kills#ixzz3Q03AhKB6
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[ARSpade]

Yes, and NFP is very difficult to use correctly. Thus my point that people who use a method that is very difficult will end up looking like they breed excessively. When somebody is attempting something difficult you can be a little more understanding when they fail.

It’s really not that difficult. There’s even iPhone apps for it.

And no matter how difficult it is, it’s way better than the horrorshow that was my wife’s brief use of the pill. Or two of our friends almost buying it from blood clots.