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pepipop
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rt.com/news/331391-russian-patriarch-meet-pope/
Unprecedented: Pope Francis, Russian Patriarch Kirill to meet in Cuba to heal 1,000yr rift
*The meeting has been in preparation for two decades and both Moscow and the Vatican agreed that some neutral country would be most suited for it. Austria and Hungary were among those considered, but Cuba was eventually chosen. The Patriarch and the Pope are expected to sign a joint declaration after the talks.
The Holy See called the upcoming meeting a “sign of good faith” and called on all Christians “to pray to God to bless the meeting,” the Vatican said in a statement.
For the Russian Orthodox Church the meeting will be the biggest foreign affairs event since reuniting in 2007 with the Russian Orthodox Church outside Russia after a 90-year split.
The Great Schism formalized the break of communion between the Latin and Greek parts of Christianity after years of accumulating differences over theology, jurisdiction and ritual. The division endured over centuries, with mutual anathemas declared by the Pope and the Patriarch of what was then Constantinople (now Istanbul) in 1054 nullified only in 1965.*
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GaryTaylor
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gilliam
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Interesting article here:
Three factors have made a pope/Russian patriarch summit possible now: cruxnow.com/church/2016/02/05/why-a-meeting-between-the-pope-and-russian-patriarch-is-finally-happening/ …
Three factors have made a pope/Russian patriarch summit possible now: cruxnow.com/church/2016/02/05/why-a-meeting-between-the-pope-and-russian-patriarch-is-finally-happening/ …
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zz912
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Glad the meeting is being held. Hopefully it is the first steps to reuniting and communion together.
Why did they select Cuba? Seems very odd. No country in Europe or North America would work?
Why did they select Cuba? Seems very odd. No country in Europe or North America would work?
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christofirst
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I wondered that too. Does Cuba have a strong Orthodox presence, or is it due to former ties with Soviet Russia? Maybe its just neutral territory. Anyway, I’m glad it is happening. We are witnessing history. A thousand year feud splitting the Body of Christ is long enough!
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phil19034
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Castro has done has ties (for political reasons) to the Russian Orthodox Church and built a ROC Cathedral there a few years ago. Plus the Pope’s visit there was very good.
Honestly, I think this might simply be a situation where both religious leaders thought picking Cuba would be good for the Cuban people and Castro thinking it would be good politics.
Cuba is perhaps the only country in the year that has strong ties to both the Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox (they people with their ties to the Catholic Church and the govt with their political ties to the ROC)
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Zabdi_Premjit
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ringil
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I wonder what they will talk about. I see these as very different men- almost like night and day.
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pepipop
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They’ve way more in common than any other religious patriarchs meeting together, specifically Christian. Personality wise, all leaders have different ‘personalities’, it’s the subject matter that counts.
*Both churches accept the decisions of the first seven Ecumenical Councils of the undivided Church. These are:
The Council of Nicea
The First Council of Constantinople
The First Council of Ephesus
The Council of Chalcedon
The Second Council of Constantinople
The Third Council of Constantinople and
The Second Council of Nicaea.
There is therefore doctrinal agreement on:
The divine and human natures of Jesus
Apostolic succession
The threefold ministry of bishops, priests and deacons
The broad structure of the visible church
The sinless life of the Blessed Virgin Mary and the honour due to her as Theotokos
Invocation of the saints
Acceptance of the seven sacraments
Confession to a priest
Use of icons in worship
Solemn celebration of the Eucharist and affirmation of its sacrificial nature as identical with the sacrifice of Christ
The Eucharistic bread and wine becoming the body and blood of Jesus Christ
Neither Church community subscribes to the Protestant teachings expressed in the five solae, especially regarding the teachings of salvation through faith alone (which these two communities understand as requiring no acts of love and charity) or of Sola Scriptura (which they understand as excluding doctrinal teachings passed down through the Church from the apostles in the form of Sacred Tradition).*
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ringil
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I would say that Francis and Bartholomew have quite a bit in common- including a commitment to ecumenism.
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ngchase
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May their meeting be the first of many. I hope the Pope defends the rights of Eastern Catholics in Ukraine and other former Soviet Republics.
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phil19034
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As FYI, Cuba is part of North America, both geographically and scientifically
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Plate
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adamhovey1988
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Would love to see some positive things come from this. I am excited.
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Alex_H
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I genuinely hope that this leads to the reunification of Christianity.
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otjm
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No kidding. Not speaking of the Patriarch himself, but there are significant elements within the Russian Orthodox who still have not come to terms with their history under Stalin and post-Stalin.
It is all too easy, when your own yard needs cleaning, to complain of the dirt in your neighbor’s.
It is all too easy, when your own yard needs cleaning, to complain of the dirt in your neighbor’s.
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otjm
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No question that we had a hand in the separation as well as they did; but when one goes with hat in hand apologizing, and the other says “Shove it, mate!”, it is fair to say “What was that all about?”.
Reconciliation seems closer with the Greek Orthodox.
Reconciliation seems closer with the Greek Orthodox.
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Zabdi_Premjit
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I have more than once seen Catholics express the sentiment that reconciliation seems closer with the Greek Orthodox. I am never sure what that means. Do many of you think that the Greeks may one day suddenly sever union with the Russians and join the Catholic church? That’s how it comes across. Do you really think this scenario is a big possibility?
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pepipop
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It’s most likely not a question of the RC being ‘closer’ with the GO, but more so to do with the fact the ROC was suppressed, for over 70 years, by communism.
It only recently got back onto its’ feet (so to speak), in 1990, within Russia.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church
Under Patriarch Aleksey, (1990) there were difficulties in the relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Vatican, especially since 2002, when Pope John Paul II created a Catholic diocesan structure for Russian territory. The leaders of the Russian Church saw this action as a throwback to prior attempts by the Vatican to proselytize the Russian Orthodox faithful to become Roman Catholic. This point of view was based upon the stance of the Russian Orthodox Church (and the Eastern Orthodox Church) that the Church of Rome is in schism, after breaking off from the Orthodox Church. The Roman Catholic Church, on the other hand, while acknowledging the primacy of the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia, believed that the small Roman Catholic minority in Russia, in continuous existence since at least the 18th century, should be served by a fully developed church hierarchy with a presence and status in Russia, just as the Russian Orthodox Church is present in other countries (including constructing a cathedral in Rome, near the Vatican).
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otjm
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There are many issues, even with the Greek Orthodox. A big possibility? No, not big; but it is clear that there are issues with the Russian Orthodox which cause a completely different tenor in any conversations from those conversations With the Greek Orthodox.
At the bottom line, all three believe in the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit blows where it will, not necessarily where any of the three would have it. Christ’s prayer was “that all may be one, Father, as you are one in me and I am one in you.” One might think that still applies,
What “one” means may not be what you, or I, or either of us envisions. Hopefully, the Roman Church has learned something over the last 10 centuries.
And I am not sure that “sever” is a prerequisite for unity.
Without (hopefully) descending into disparaging remarks by anyone concerning the Eastern rites in union with Rome, It really wasn’t until John Paul 2 became Pope that the legitimacy of the Eastern liturgies and theology were acknowledged. For wahtever the source - all too many Italians at the helm or whatever the source, Latinization was the keyword until he said “Enough!”. And in the scope of history and time, that was yesterday, or maybe this morning.
There is no question we still have our own house cleaning to get on with.
So no, I don’t see it as sudden, and I don’t know that sever would be appropriate.
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