Pope Saint John Paul II and the Novus Ordo

[Myname]

Im in a private discussion on the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo Mass. I help finding statements from recent Popes praising It. Especially interested in statements from Pope Saint John Paul II. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks

 

[Myname]

I am looking for statments with references from the Popes praising the Novus Ordo mass. Or Declaring it legit. I’m not looking for a debate, in looking for help. Thanks

 

[angel12]

I am looking for statments with references from the Popes praising the Novus Ordo mass. Or Declaring it legit.

I don’t really understand what you’re looking for. It was promulgated by a Pope, Pope Paul VI. How much more “legit” could he declare it?

 

[leonhardprintz]

The ordinary form of the latin rite is a perfectly fine mass. There is nothing wrong with it. Like all celebrations and all rituals it can be performed better or worse. I’ve seen very pious celebrations of the ordinary form.

 

[po18guy]

The much vaunted “Latin Mass” is not the mass celebrated by Christ and the Apostles. That was done in Aramaic. So, why does this person think that Latin is the only legitimate mass?

Consider that word “legitimate” - that means that Church council, in conjunction with the Holy Spirit, formulated it. It is an echo of Acts 15.

For such narrow and closed minds, some conversation is good, but can be a waste of time. Heels are dug in, disobedience in full swing.

I would appeal to the Holy Spirit in prayer - for as long as it takes.

 

[leonhardprintz]

The much vaunted “Latin Mass” is not the mass celebrated by Christ and the Apostles. That was done in Aramaic. So, why does this person think that Latin is the only legitimate mass?

Just to be clear the ordinary form of the mass can also be celebrated entirely in latin. Many religious communities in fact do just this.

 

[po18guy]

Well, yes, that is clear. I’m not that developmentally disabled.

The point is the ego, selfishness and control issues that such Latinistas possess and seek to force on the entier Church.

That is not even Christian.

 

[leonhardprintz]

Well, yes, that is clear. I’m not that developmentally disabled.

I did not imply that, but you called the old form the ‘Latin mass’, which is a bit problematic, because the Novus Ordo is in fact the ordinary form of the latin rite.

I’m just a stickler for precision.

The point is the ego, selfishness and control issues that such Latinistas possess and seek to force on the entier Church.

We can both agree that one small group desiring to take control of the concerns of the Church is a problem, on the other hand the Church is not a democracy.

I trust in the bishops direction.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Ordinary Form.

Sounds like you are on a fool’s errand. You do not need to prove that JPII approved of the ordinary form. He oversaw the implementation of it, celebrated it and presided over the documents that clarified the liturgy. What more is needed?

Consider:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...on_ccdds_doc_20020513_vers-direttorio_en.html

and

Pope John Paul II Apostolic letter on the 25th Anniversary of Sacrosanctum Concilium

Pope John Paul II – Apostolic Letter on the 25th Anniversary of the Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium. Vicesimus Quintus AnnusDecember 4, 1988(Released May 13, 1989) To all my Brothers in the Episcopate and the PriesthoodGreetings and the Apostolic Blessing 1. Twenty-five years ago on December...

adoremus.org

And

http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p.../hf_jp-ii_spe_19970308_ad-limina-francia.html

Since it was his job to implement Vatican II his statements on the liturgy and too numerous to link here.

 

[Myname]

The person I’m discussing this with, is arguing that Missale Romanum did not use the legal terminology to legitimacy promulgate the Mass. I’m doing good job answering his objection.

I looking for quotes the successors of Pope Paul VI to strengthen my argument. Thanks

 

[po18guy]

Yes, clearly both forms are permitted. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI made this very clear.

 

[Myname]

Yes he is SSPX, but he family, “Shacking the dust of and moving on” is not a option here. I know there is little I can say to convince him… but I must try.

 

[Fauken]

Is there no FSSP parish around you? Does he have something against them?

 

[leonhardprintz]

Yes he is SSPX, but he family, “Shacking the dust of and moving on” is not a option here. I know there is little I can say to convince him… but I must try.

You don’t have to try. The SSPX issue is a sensitive one requiring expert knowledge. I think it is enough for you to know your faith and pray for him. There are others far more qualified trying to reach out to the SSPX. Be careful about listening to him too much as you might get a warped sense of reality.

 

[angel12]

Yes he is SSPX, but he family, “Shacking the dust of and moving on” is not a option here. I know there is little I can say to convince him… but I must try.

If they don’t accept Pope Paul VI, what makes you think they’ll accept any Pope’s opinion on this?

 

[Myname]

Trust me, I’ve already run into his SSPX warped understanding of "history and “tradition”. He is not going to lure me away. He is my older Brother, it hurts to see him him walking that path.

Like I said, he is family, I need to try to help him back from the craziness his is in.

 

[1ke]

Im in a private discussion on the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo Mass.

That is not going to end well.

 

[Myname]

Angle 12, you make a good point. I’m not useing the quotes as the bases of my argument. I’m using them to strengthen the argument.

 

[leonhardprintz]

Like I said, he is family, I need to try to help him back from the craziness his is in.

Like I said, I don’t think you need to. It comes from a place of love, but to respond to the SSPX requires a wide expertise in the Church’s history, the Church Fathers, historical particulars, liturgy, theology, … very few experts amass this level of capability.

If you’re interested I’d seek out the FSSP who has made it something of a mission to them to respond to the SSPX.

But I’d still be hesitant for you to take on a duty to deal with the complex and problematic beliefs he might have imbibed. I’d pray for him, and take care of my own understanding of the Church. If he brings up arguments, I’d say that I trust the bishops humbly and piously.

 

[Myname]

Leonhardpintz, you offer great advice, I will contact the FSSP for help. The would be better prepared for this topic. Thanks