Pope says he'd rather trust God than live in bullet-proof bubble

[livingwordunity]

Yep. JPII was maybe not quite as gregarious but he had at least a somewhat similar pastoral style to Francis. More formal but certainly liked to mix in with the people. Getting almost assassinated sometimes makes you re-evaluate the situation; not just for one’s own life but for protecting the flock from losing their leader.

Exactly, if John Paul II would have given a would be assassin another chance maybe we wouldn’t have a lot of the great works that he gave to the Church.

 

[NorthernAdams]

The allegory doesn’t work for me. On one hand, we have a certain flood destroying everything and everybody in its wake. On the other, we have a cage to protect against a very unlikely scenario.

Children need a papa who will hold them close, worship with them, laugh with them and cry with them.

And papa can’t do that if he’s dead. Sorry, I disagree.

 

[april32010]

The allegory doesn’t work for me. On one hand, we have a certain flood destroying everything and everybody in its wake. On the other, we have a cage to protect against a very unlikely scenario.

Children need a papa who will hold them close, worship with them, laugh with them and cry with them.

there have been 266 popes,of that number 38 have been killed in office.32 martyred ,6 murdered. thats 15%. and if the attempt on john paul II would have been successful ,it would have been 39

 

[kag1982]

Buenos Aires is not violent by any means (comparing it with most 3M+ cities, that is). Neither is the country.

This, on the other hand, is 100% accurate. But then again, Pope Francis had been visiting the slums for decades an people knew him and respected him.

I should know. Have lived there for the past 40 years and visit the states and europe at least once every 2 years

Considering the amount of violence that takes place in certain areas of Chicago, you might think that Chicago was a violent war torn city as well. . Most cities have rougher, poorer areas. The fact that Bergoglio spent his life ministering in the seedier area of BA means that he has a different sense of security and much different pastoral style.

As for the overall comments, I think that we have to remember that the current security arrangements are a compromise on the Pope’s part. If he could get away with it, he would probably try renting a small flat in Rome and either walking or taking the bus to the Vatican each day. I thought it was telling that Francis said in his press comference that he missed being able to walk the streets of Rome. (That was what he was doing when he got to Rome in early March.). It does seem that his security detail is willing to bend up to a point and Francis is willing to listen to “no” after he is told it enough times. Security seemed much tighter after the Fiat swarming incident in Rio.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t know, I never got the feeling that the 2 previous popes were in a bubble and out of touch with the faithful who live in the ‘outside world’. I’m not sure what kind of change is really needed in that regard. I guess ‘change’ is a catchy word, people like it because it is so vague.

I think people need to realize each Pope has a different personality. One is not better than another.

Funny how the each Pope’s charism is perfect for its time.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yep. JPII was maybe not quite as gregarious but he had at least a somewhat similar pastoral style to Francis. More formal but certainly liked to mix in with the people. Getting almost assassinated sometimes makes you re-evaluate the situation; not just for one’s own life but for protecting the flock from losing their leader.

 

[SonCatcher]

there have been 266 popes,of that number 38 have been killed in office.32 martyred ,6 murdered. thats 15%. and if the attempt on john paul II would have been successful ,it would have been 39

Care to break down those 38 by century? The Roman persecutions are over. We are not presently in a time of widespread, violent, physical persecution. If we did reenter such a time, these measures would be ineffective anyway.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

Care to break down those 38 by century? The Roman persecutions are over. We are not presently in a time of widespread, violent, physical persecution. If we did reenter such a time, these measures would be ineffective anyway.

This might be of interest:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_murdered_popes

 

[mafh]

I feel really bad for the pope – he just can’t win. If he stuck with the bullet-proof popemobile, then people would say ‘oh, just another example of these out-of-touch pontiffs living in a bubble’. If he ditches the popemobile, then people say ‘oh, look at how selfish he is, putting his security guards lives at risk.’ And, you know that if the pope that follows this one opts to go back to the popemobile, people will say ‘oh,why isn’t he brave and approachable like Pope Francis?’. See, a pope just can’t win.

 

[canis73]

Considering the amount of violence that takes place in certain areas of Chicago, you might think that Chicago was a violent war torn city as well. . Most cities have rougher, poorer areas. The fact that Bergoglio spent his life ministering in the seedier area of BA means that he has a different sense of security and much different pastoral style.

As for the overall comments, I think that we have to remember that the current security arrangements are a compromise on the Pope’s part. If he could get away with it, he would probably try renting a small flat in Rome and either walking or taking the bus to the Vatican each day. I thought it was telling that Francis said in his press comference that he missed being able to walk the streets of Rome. (That was what he was doing when he got to Rome in early March.). It does seem that his security detail is willing to bend up to a point and Francis is willing to listen to “no” after he is told it enough times. Security seemed much tighter after the Fiat swarming incident in Rio.

Fair enough.
All I was trying to state is that Pope Francis did not grow up in a violent environment. During his teen years, he was immersed in a highly educated society (things have changed for the worse since then) that shaped his personality as much as what he would later find around the poor . And he rebelled against marginality and became a champion of the poor, in my opinion, due to his calling, not just the slums he visited as an adult.
Fully agree on your second paragraph.

 

[SonCatcher]

This might be of interest:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_murdered_popes

31 martyred during the persecutions. They shouldn’t count unless we reenter such a time.
1 martyred in the 7th century. Granted.
6 murdered in the 9th and 10th centuries. Such a cluster seems anomalous and limited to the time. Statistically, it’s unimportant.

Aside from a few suspicious deaths and attempts, there hasn’t been a pope martyred or murdered in over 1000 years. In the full history of the Church, only one martyrdom of a pope has occurred outside of the expected circumstances. I’d say that shifts perspective dramatically.

 

[NorthernAdams]

not just for one’s own life but for protecting the flock from losing their leader.

Exactly. He could martyr himself, but we need him alive. That requires he not take foolish chances with his life.

…Pope Francis did not grow up in a violent environment.

Exactly. I’m only 50–substantially younger than the pope–and our environment (which translates to culture) is morally caustic. That always results in an increase of violence and hostility in people. I’m only 50, and I can’t imagine what it’s like for older people. The changes just in the past 20 years have been psychologically jarring.

During his teen years, he was immersed in a highly educated society…

Exactly. And education and intelligence are inconsistent with a society that is morally eroded and morally caustic.

 

[Holly3278]

I am glad that he is so trusting of God. I am sure that he will take appropriate security measures to keep himself safe though. I think that such security measures are definitely a requirement in today’s day and age, especially after the attempted assassination of Saint Pope John Paul II.

Besides that, the Catholic Church is increasingly hated in this world. Many people hate the Catholic Church because of its stance on “gay rights”. Others hate the Catholic Church because of its stance on abortion. Still others hate the Catholic Church simply because the Catholic Church makes the claim that it is the one true Church which it is.

 

[livingwordunity]

31 martyred during the persecutions. They shouldn’t count unless we reenter such a time.

Christians are being persecuted in many parts of the world - in communist countries such as China, Vietnam, and North Korea, and in almost any Muslim country. In many Western countries, the persecution is in the form of legal harassment and the societal vilification of traditional Christians for not accepting so-called “same-sex marriage”. Even in recent news we have heard of several Catholic and Orthodox Churches being bombed, Christians getting beheaded for their faith by Islamic extremists, and places like China where it’s against the law to be a Catholic. Because this is ignored and not considered to be persecution by Western leaders and the mainstream media the general public also doesn’t care. When Churches get bombed and Christians get beheaded by Islamic extremists the mainstream media acts as if the fighting is equal on both sides even though it’s always the churches and never the mosques that get bombed. And it’s always a Christian getting beheaded by an Islamic extremist and never a Muslim getting beheaded by a Christian. Here’s an article about it:

Contemporary Martyrs
by Gerald M. Costello

Everyone knows that the blood of the martyrs has been the seed of the Church. And everyone knows that the “age of the martyrs” took place a long, long time ago. “Everyone,” it turns out, is only half right.

Indeed the Church has been strengthened beyond measure because of the courageous men and women, as well as adolescents and children, who willingly shed their blood as martyrs rather than abandon their faith. But it didn’t all happen in those dim, misty years when Christianity was first finding its way. In our own time—in the 20th century, in fact—more Catholics have lost their lives as martyrs than in any previous century in the history of the Church. Far more. Read more

I also recommend this book about it:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[maklavan]

I don’t know, I never got the feeling that the 2 previous popes were in a bubble and out of touch with the faithful who live in the ‘outside world’. I’m not sure what kind of change is really needed in that regard. I guess ‘change’ is a catchy word, people like it because it is so vague.

These are your words and your slant on the facts. The bubble probably refers to the Popemobile and the surrounding security men,who always look like something out of the mafia. Comparisons are odious, and we really should not compare this pope with his predecessors: apples and pears;chalk and cheese

 

[RB2]

The seemingly reckless behavior of Pope Francis can be explained in various ways:

Some thoughts:

1. Perhaps God has told him that he would die a martyr. Perhaps he is going to usher in an age of martrydom for the church. This is the age and times for these things, perhaps its exact moment! Consequently, you have Pope Francis entrusting his life to Christ knowing that the time and place of his death has already been determined by God and that God will protect his life until then. It may also be that Pope Francis thinks that taking many steps to protect his life may thwart Gods plan.

Jesus’s words in Luke 13:33:
Nevertheless, I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following, for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.’

More plans for overseas trips, specifically Jerusalem.
catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/07/31/pope-francis-discusses-future-travel-plans/

 

[NorthernAdams]

The seemingly reckless behavior of Pope Francis can be explained in various ways:

Some thoughts:

1. Perhaps God has told him that he would die a martyr. Perhaps he is going to usher in an age of martrydom for the church. This is the age and times for these things, perhaps its exact moment! Consequently, you have Pope Francis entrusting his life to Christ knowing that the time and place of his death has already been determined by God and that God will protect his life until then. It may also be that Pope Francis thinks that taking many steps to protect his life may thwart Gods plan.

Jesus’s words in Luke 13:33:
Nevertheless, I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following, for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.’

So the pope is supposed to be martyred? He’s worth more dead than alive? If you put yourself in harm’s way, God doesn’t really have anything to do with that. If the pope takes reasonable and available precautions and then he’s martyred, I would see that as a case of God’s will–not foregoing the pope-mobile. I think we need a living pope.

 

[RB2]

If you put yourself in harm’s way, God doesn’t really have anything to do with that.

Wrong, not correct and where do you get this stuff?
Early Roman Martyrology contradicts your statement.
Jesus would be one and St George would be another.

 

[vames]

The Pope wants to give an EXAMPLE to all the clergy. His intention is not to criticize something that the previous popes did, but to AFFIRM his vision about how each and every priest and bishop must behave in order to keep a direct and intimate contact with the laity, to restore the meaning to the expression “the Holy Mother Church”.

In Brazil he gave an interview for O Globo where he said:

Before I left for Brazil, I saw the papamobile - it was like a glass box. Now if you want to see a dear one, a friend, and want to communicate with him, to shake his hand, do you do that standing behind a glass box?​

It’s all or nothing. Either you communicate with people or you don’t. Half-communication is not good. I want to thank both the security of Vatican and the security offered by the Brazilian govt. I am aware that something could happen; somebody could hit me. But they know that I am indisciplined, not because I want to play the enfant terrible, but because when I visit people, I want to treat them as people, I want to touch them.​

For me, the Church being close to the laity is fundamental. The Church is mother and neither you or I know our mothers by correspondence. [Pope Francis makes a hug gesture] A mother hugs you, offers you tenderness, touches you, kisses you, loves you. When the Church, which is occupied with a thousand things, ceases to value closeness and communicates only by documents, it becomes like a mother who communicates with his son only by letters.​

In some places in Argentina, this has happened. Lack of closeness and lack of priests have left people alone and in need for the Gospel. A priest told me that he went on a mission to a southern city, where there was no priest for almost 20 years. Obviously, people listened to the [Protestant] pastor, because they needed to hear the word of God. A very cultured lady said to him: I am upset with the Church, because she abandoned us. I go each Sunday to listen to the pastor, because he is the one who has nourished our faith during these years. And when the priest left her house, she said: “wait a moment” and showed him her wardrobe, where she kept an image of the Virgin Mary. “I have it hidden here, because I don’t want the pastor to see it.” So she listened to the pastor, but she kept the roots of her faith. You see, this is the lack of closeness. I want to repeat it: this is how a mother keeps her child [Pope Francis makes a hug gesture]: she cares for him, she kisses him, she caresses him, she nourishes him.

g1.globo.com/fantastico/noticia/2013/07/fantastico-exibe-entrevista-exclusiva-com-papa-francisco.html

 

[NorthernAdams]

Wrong, not correct and where do you get this stuff?
Early Roman Martyrology contradicts your statement.
Jesus would be one and St George would be another.

How did either of these persons recklessly put themselves in harm’s way? Jesus knew it would happen. That’s not the same as putting one’s self in harm’s way.

I don’t consider that you’ve proven me wrong here. The pope knows society is deranged. If he insists on rejecting reasonable safety measures and goes running through mega-crowds completely unprotected, not only is that a case of putting one’s self in harm’s way unnecessarily, but he disrespects those who desperately need him to stay alive, and lead, protect, and defend the Church. God does not have anything to do with people taking unnecessary risks with their safety.