R
rob179ny
Guest
I mean both Jews and Muslims deny Jesus as being God.
Do they have lesser of the truth or more…
Which one… I wont sit around and be lukewarm.
- Status
Do they have lesser of the truth or more…
Which one… I wont sit around and be lukewarm.
B
blacktiger057
Guest
No, the Trinity makes perfect sense to me. Why do you ask, out of curiosity?Let’s hear the Holy Scripture on the matter then dear blacktiger.
Tell me how humans will not be in the Hell you say is real.
Tell me about Hell so I can understand it better please.
But- before you do-
do you deny the Trinity?
I ask since most I know happen to deny both.
Well, in the Bible it says God is always loving and forgiving etc. It’s on almost every page of it. But then it says if you sin you’ll burn in hell. This is paradoxical. God forgives you no matter what because he understands you.
I don’t know much about what hell exactly is, but I do know that the demons reside there and that people don’t go there. According to the Bible, it’s two paradoxes that contradict each other.
But, as you may have seen, I’m not one to base everything off a Bible that a bunch of people wrote expecting me to fully believe. My true Bible is that of my heart.
R
rob179ny
Guest
I respect everyones right to believe.
S
Sabda
Guest
What is this, the list from Lorraine Bottainer? BTW, not sure if I spelled his name right.Too many changes and you lose your identity, your faith, and morals.
"The key-word that describes the doctrine of Roman Catholics is: CHANGE
Pre-Roman Catholic--------- teachings
200 AD
Immersion of infants who are dying, but considered sinless. (Tertullian V.12)
250 AD
North Africa region is first to practice infant baptism and reduced the age of baptism from minors to all newborns. This is opposed by other regions.
257 AD
Baptism by sprinkling for adults instead of immersion first used as an exception for those on sick beds, but it caused great dispute.
300 AD
Prayers for the dead
320 AD
Special dress code of the clergy in worship
325 AD
At the general council of Nice, 325, it was proposed indeed, probably by the Western bishop Hosius, to forbid entirely the marriage of priests; but the motion met with strong opposition, and was rejected.
325 AD
The date for Easter was set.
379 AD
Praying to Mary & Saints. (prayers of Ephraim Syrus)
385 AD
In the West, the first prohibition of clerical marriage, which laid claim to universal ecclesiastical authority, proceeded in 385 from the Roman church in the form of a decretal letter of the bishop Siricius to Himerius, bishop of Tarragona in Spain.
389 AD
Mariolatry begins with Gregory Nazianzen, who mentions in a eulogy, how Justina had besought the virgin Mary to protect her virginity.
400 AD
Impossibility of apostasy or once saved always saved, (Augustine XII.9)
416 AD
Infant baptism by immersion commanded of all infants (Council Of Mela, Austin was the principal director)
430 AD
Exhalation of Virgin Mary: “Mother of God” first applied by the Council of Ephesus
502 AD
Special dress code of the Clergy all the time.
500 AD
The “Habit” of Nuns (Black gowns with white tunics)
519 AD
Lent
526 AD
Extreme Unction
593 AD
The Doctrine of Purgatory popularized from the Apocrypha by Gregory the Great
600 AD
First use of Latin in worship (Gregory I)
Beginning of the Orthodox/Roman Catholic church as we know it today in its present organization.
607 AD
First Pope: Boniface III is the first person to take the title of “universal Bishop” by decree of Emperor Phocas.
608 AD
Pope Boniface IV. turns the Pantheon in Rome into a temple of Mary ad martyres: the pagan Olympus into a Christian heaven of gods.
670 AD
Instrumental music: first organ by Pope Vitalian
709 AD
Kissing of Pope Constantine’s feet
753 AD
Baptism by sprinkling for those on sick beds officially accepted.
787 AD
Worship of icons and statue approved (2nd council of Nicea)
bible.ca/cath-new-doctrines.htm
“I want the truth!” “You can’t handle the truth!” (my apologies to Tom and Jack)
If you would like you can start a thread for each of these and we can all discuss it, or better yet use the search engine. These have already been tackled before. Maybe someone can be kind enough to provide the sites that refute all these. I don’t know them offhand.
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blacktiger057
Guest
The are all equal in truth. That’s why they are called truths. But since we are all differnt, everyone’s truth is different from another person’s. We all in the end have one God, but each of us portray him differntly. You are concerned in who has the most power and truth, your ego obviosuly wanting that the ultimate truth to be your beliefs. But that is ofcourse not so, but a nice fantasy.
H
Hellisreal
Guest
BumpLet’s hear the Holy Scripture on the matter then dear blacktiger.
Tell me how humans will not be in the Hell you say is real.
Tell me about Hell so I can understand it better please.
But- before you do-
do you deny the Trinity?
I ask since most I know happen to deny both.
R
rob179ny
Guest
No I just dont want to compromise truth, because then it would be a lie. Then we would literally be playing with fire.
S
Sabda
Guest
According to our understanding of hell. Hell is separation from God. God chooses for all of us to be with him. However, he is not going to force us to be with him. In order for us to truly love him we must have the free will to want to love him. Some of us will reject him. For those, they will go to hell, which they choose. That is actually a far kinder choice then the alternative. Which is being forced to spend eternity in heaven with the God that you have rejected and do not love.
N
nightwoodkitty
Guest
Hello my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am a Protestant (United Church of Christ) and am faced with a dilemma. My niece got her first marriage annulled, became a Catholic, and will re-marry at a Nuptial Mass. I would like to go in support of them, but I understand I am not allowed to participate in Eucharist, and I am not considered a Christian by Catholics. This is personally painful to me. I am Christian by birth, education, and choice. I feel forced to repress my Christian identity by attending this event. What do you advise? Thank you.
H
Hellisreal
Guest
I advise starting a thread in the family slot.
E
estesbob
Guest
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gifwell we know you can cut n paste but you should know that this bogus list has been posted here about 10,000 times. But just exactly does this have to do with the Chuch being the ne true Church?Too many changes and you lose your identity, your faith, and morals.
"The key-word that describes the doctrine of Roman Catholics is: CHANGE
Pre-Roman Catholic--------- teachings
200 AD
Immersion of infants who are dying, but considered sinless. (Tertullian V.12)
250 AD
North Africa region is first to practice infant baptism and reduced the age of baptism from minors to all newborns. This is opposed by other regions.
257 AD
Baptism by sprinkling for adults instead of immersion first used as an exception for those on sick beds, but it caused great dispute.
300 AD
Prayers for the dead
320 AD
Special dress code of the clergy in worship
325 AD
At the general council of Nice, 325, it was proposed indeed, probably by the Western bishop Hosius, to forbid entirely the marriage of priests; but the motion met with strong opposition, and was rejected.
325 AD
The date for Easter was set.
379 AD
Praying to Mary & Saints. (prayers of Ephraim Syrus)
385 AD
In the West, the first prohibition of clerical marriage, which laid claim to universal ecclesiastical authority, proceeded in 385 from the Roman church in the form of a decretal letter of the bishop Siricius to Himerius, bishop of Tarragona in Spain.
389 AD
Mariolatry begins with Gregory Nazianzen, who mentions in a eulogy, how Justina had besought the virgin Mary to protect her virginity.
400 AD
Impossibility of apostasy or once saved always saved, (Augustine XII.9)
416 AD
Infant baptism by immersion commanded of all infants (Council Of Mela, Austin was the principal director)
430 AD
Exhalation of Virgin Mary: “Mother of God” first applied by the Council of Ephesus
502 AD
Special dress code of the Clergy all the time.
500 AD
The “Habit” of Nuns (Black gowns with white tunics)
519 AD
Lent
526 AD
Extreme Unction
593 AD
The Doctrine of Purgatory popularized from the Apocrypha by Gregory the Great
600 AD
First use of Latin in worship (Gregory I)
Beginning of the Orthodox/Roman Catholic church as we know it today in its present organization.
607 AD
First Pope: Boniface III is the first person to take the title of “universal Bishop” by decree of Emperor Phocas.
608 AD
Pope Boniface IV. turns the Pantheon in Rome into a temple of Mary ad martyres: the pagan Olympus into a Christian heaven of gods.
670 AD
Instrumental music: first organ by Pope Vitalian
709 AD
Kissing of Pope Constantine’s feet
753 AD
Baptism by sprinkling for those on sick beds officially accepted.
787 AD
Worship of icons and statue approved (2nd council of Nicea)
bible.ca/cath-new-doctrines.htm
“I want the truth!” “You can’t handle the truth!” (my apologies to Tom and Jack)
smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb112&pp=ZNxdm801CJUS
R
RevDrNorth
Guest
Nope. According to Fr. Hopko.
ancientfaithradio.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/
So, the EO faith is the true church established by Christ on the confession of Peter. He notes the RC Church has mechanical succession (I guess as do the Anglicans) but since they do not have the Apostolic faith and have added to it (eg Papal doctinres), they are not the “True Church” (the one Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church).
I enjoyed hearing it. I imagine them is fighting words Hey…I guess you RC’s are in the same boat as us Anglicans.
Time to do an iron man marathon… swim across the Tiber, hike and then swim the Bosphorus.
To be deep in hisotry is to be Orthodox???Rev North
M
mozart-250
Guest
Since there is nothing really new here, it is difficult to be offended.
Of course the justification for this assertion reduces to “because we said so”. That is because you can not prove this assertion by any other means.
For those of us who are not in the set “we” the reason “because we said so” is um…unconvincing.
Now I trust that Pope B. has the humility and Christlikeness to handle this assertion. Wish it were so for the rest of the “One True Church”.
As I have always said, the “One True Church” assertions will have credibility to me when it becomes obvious that the quality of Christianity practiced by the “One True Church” is plainly superior to that which is practiced by the poor defective communities of faith to which I adhere to. Otherwise I will continue to believe that the “One True Church” is just as messed up as the rest of us.
Of course the justification for this assertion reduces to “because we said so”. That is because you can not prove this assertion by any other means.
For those of us who are not in the set “we” the reason “because we said so” is um…unconvincing.
Now I trust that Pope B. has the humility and Christlikeness to handle this assertion. Wish it were so for the rest of the “One True Church”.
As I have always said, the “One True Church” assertions will have credibility to me when it becomes obvious that the quality of Christianity practiced by the “One True Church” is plainly superior to that which is practiced by the poor defective communities of faith to which I adhere to. Otherwise I will continue to believe that the “One True Church” is just as messed up as the rest of us.
S
Salamander
Guest
Here’s the point. The headlines read, “Pope says there is only one true church”. So if, in logic, the church has not changed in 2000 years, as some have posted here and in other threads, why the additions?
S
Salamander
Guest
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gifwell we know you can cut n paste but you should know that this bogus list has been posted here about 10,000 times. But just exactly does this have to do with the Chuch being the ne true Church?
…and the beat goes on…
smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb112&pp=ZNxdm801CJUS
I
Ignats75
Guest
Ummmm, so the Presbyterian Church that sanctifies the marriage of Gay Men and allows for abortion is morally superior to the Roman Catholic Church?
A
Antwill
Guest
How is the number of times that Mass is celebrated an issue of morality?“In the beginning Mass was celebrated only once a week, then three or four times, and finally, in the fifth or sixth century, every day.” (Legislation on the Sacraments in the New Code of Canon Law, 87)
Unchanging huh? Do you need further examples?
I’m talking about moral issues that have been spoken about dogmatically (ie. abortion, homosexuality, contraception, etc.).
S
Sabda
Guest
It’s already been pointed out that is a bogus list. Like I said start a thread or do a search on Loraine Boettner’s list. It’s already been refuted, and no, that list is not even accurate.Here’s the point. The headlines read, “Pope says there is only one true church”. So if, in logic, the church has not changed in 2000 years, as some have posted here and in other threads, why the additions?
M
mozart-250
Guest
I’m not Presbyterian so this is a strawman to me.
My church does not sanctify the marriage of gay men and does not believe in abortion thank you.
Besides I am not even claiming my church is morally superior. I just don’t see the superiority in yours that you claim exists.
P
Pravoslavac
Guest
I believe the Pope and the Vatican did screw the ecumenical movement up.
Comments like “the Orthodox is a true church but has a wound in it…” because it doesn’t believe in the Petrine Doctrine that the RCC formulated? Remember St. Peter didn’t find the Patriarchate of Rome first, he founded the Patriarchate of Antioch and of Alexandria before Rome.
Of the 5 Patriarchates of the ancient Church, Rome was given the title of first among equals only because the Patriarchate of Rome was in the capital of the Roman Empire. Similarly the early Church was never ruled or run by one bishop. It was done through meetings of councils and synods.
So to answer your question, I do think the Pope and the Vatican did throw a wrench into ecumenical discussions with the second largest body of Christianity…the Eastern Orthodox!!
- Status