Pope Says There is Only One True Church

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Yep, that’s the protestants.

Love to protest…even to this day.

Gosh, if only they take the time to look it up as to why they’re not the true churches than to waste time and protest…

They’re soo…ignorant, especially some of the Catholic ones.
Of course you do realize that by the same token the Catholic Church is the first Protestant Church. It went into schism and broke away from the Church founded by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Due to their schism they gave birth to others schismatic groups.

As an Orthodox Pamphlet by Conciliar Press says “The Orthodox Church is the first Christian Church, the Church founded by Jesus Christ…for twenty centuries she has continued in her undiminished and unaltered faith and practice. Today her Apostolic doctrine, worship and structure remain intact, and as it was in the beginning. The Orthodox Church is the living Body of Christ”.

Certainly, the Orthodox Church has endured more trials than any other (the gates of hell will not prevail against it).

It is not just that what the Pope said is offensive…it is wrong. What is it…keep saying it long enough and people will buy into it.

Rev North
 
Of course you do realize that by the same token the Catholic Church is the first Protestant Church. It went into schism and broke away from the Church founded by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Due to their schism they gave birth to others schismatic groups.

As an Orthodox Pamphlet by Conciliar Press says “The Orthodox Church is the first Christian Church, the Church founded by Jesus Christ…for twenty centuries she has continued in her undiminished and unaltered faith and practice. Today her Apostolic doctrine, worship and structure remain intact, and as it was in the beginning. The Orthodox Church is the living Body of Christ”.

Certainly, the Orthodox Church has endured more trials than any other (the gates of hell will not prevail against it).

It is not just that what the Pope said is offensive…it is wrong. What is it…keep saying it long enough and people will buy into it.

Rev North
With all due respect, Reverend, how do you figure the Catholic Church split from the Orthodox? It was the other way around.

Plus, the Orthodox have many of the same issues that arise from not having a final earthly authority. Although the Orthodox maintain apostolic succession, valid Eucharist, etc., they lack that vital element of a final authority. The Catholic Church is the only one that has that authority in the Pope and Magisterium.

As for the Pope being wrong - again, with all due respect - who are you to decide that? The Pope is simply restating a teaching that has been consistently taught by the Church since Christ founded Her. I’m sorry if it is offensive to you, but it is not the Pope’s job to practice a false ecumenism that denies the Truth as the Church has taught it just in the hopes of not offending someone.

One can keep saying the truth over and over again, and many will never accept it.
 
With all due respect, Reverend, how do you figure the Catholic Church split from the Orthodox? It was the other way around.

Plus, the Orthodox have many of the same issues that arise from not having a final earthly authority. Although the Orthodox maintain apostolic succession, valid Eucharist, etc., they lack that vital element of a final authority. The Catholic Church is the only one that has that authority in the Pope and Magisterium.

As for the Pope being wrong - again, with all due respect - who are you to decide that? The Pope is simply restating a teaching that has been consistently taught by the Church since Christ founded Her. I’m sorry if it is offensive to you, but it is not the Pope’s job to practice a false ecumenism that denies the Truth as the Church has taught it just in the hopes of not offending someone.

One can keep saying the truth over and over again, and many will never accept it.
The Roman Catholic Church developed some innovative doctrines and wanted to assert itself over all of Christianity. It managed that in the West and split from the Church founded by Christ. It in turn gave birth to various other schisms. Just a fact no matter how unpleasant you find it.

I am sure the Pope is indeed correct that there is only one true church. Of course it is the Orthodox Church and not the Roman Church. I am not offended and I am sure the the Roman Catholic Church has taught it and believes it but that does not make in true in the face of the facts. There is only ONE church that has maintained the faith as taught and that is the Orthodox faith. The Roman Catholic faith as with its Protestant children chose to depart from that by developing new doctrines and temporal concerns (such as power over the other Patriarchs - making oneself into an temporal King). Cardinal Humberto’s disprespect for the Divine Liturgy in order to slap his Papal Bull on the altar dispalyed a complete lack of concern for the holy and was simple human mean spirited power grab. The pillaging and destruction of Constantinople by the Crusaders was no better.

Yet…through it all the Church of the living God moved on as it did through Musilm invasions and occupation and community persecution. The gates of hell indeed did not prevail against the Church Christ founded.

I pray for the return of the Roman Catholic to the Church Christ founded. :crossrc:

Rev North
 
The Roman Catholic Church developed some innovative doctrines and wanted to assert itself over all of Christianity. It managed that in the West and split from the Church founded by Christ. It in turn gave birth to various other schisms. Just a fact no matter how unpleasant you find it.
I assume that you are at least partly referring to Papal Authority as one of the “innovative doctrines.” I’m sure you realize that many doctrines and dogmas of the Church are not necessarily definitively defined until they are challenged. Such was the case with papal authority. Obviously, Christ named Peter the first pope.

Your opinion maybe “fact” to you, but I see it much differently, and I have an earthly authority established by Christ to speak definitively on such things and lead me to the Truth.
I am sure the Pope is indeed correct that there is only one true church. Of course it is the Orthodox Church and not the Roman Church. I am not offended and I am sure the the Roman Catholic Church has taught it and believes it but that does not make in true in the face of the facts. There is only ONE church that has maintained the faith as taught and that is the Orthodox faith. The Roman Catholic faith as with its Protestant children chose to depart from that by developing new doctrines and temporal concerns (such as power over the other Patriarchs - making oneself into an temporal King). Cardinal Humberto’s disprespect for the Divine Liturgy in order to slap his Papal Bull on the altar dispalyed a complete lack of concern for the holy and was simple human mean spirited power grab. The pillaging and destruction of Constantinople by the Crusaders was no better.

Yet…through it all the Church of the living God moved on as it did through Musilm invasions and occupation and community persecution. The gates of hell indeed did not prevail against the Church Christ founded.

I pray for the return of the Roman Catholic to the Church Christ founded. :crossrc:

Rev North
Again, with all due respect, this is all your personal interpretation of the historical events of which you speak.

I’m assuming you are Orthodox. Surely, you have seen the dissention and problems that have arisen in the Orthodox Church because they lack a final early authority, have you not? Do you think Christ would establish a Church without such an authority? It seems to me common sense that Christ loves us enough to set up a Church that would have a final earthly authority to turn to in order to preserve the complete Truth of the faith.
 
I’m assuming you are Orthodox. Surely, you have seen the dissention and problems that have arisen in the Orthodox Church because they lack a final early authority, have you not? Do you think Christ would establish a Church without such an authority? It seems to me common sense that Christ loves us enough to set up a Church that would have a final earthly authority to turn to in order to preserve the complete Truth of the faith.
Actually, Anglican.

Actually, the Orthodox operates as the NT Church did (no surprise since it is the Church establish by Jesus). Don’t you remember the council over issues of Jewish practice in the early Church. It was the Conscience of the Church that prevailed (Orthodox concept). Paul chastized Peter who was wrong and being hypocritical over the issue and the conscience of the Church went with Paul’s interpretation. Peter did not have authority over the group (certainly was not infallible) or right (it was Paul under the guidance of the Holy Spirit that corrected Peter’s error).

The current Pope has more power and authority in the church than Peter could have dreamed of.

Rev North
 
Actually, Anglican.

Actually, the Orthodox operates as the NT Church did (no surprise since it is the Church establish by Jesus). Don’t you remember the council over issues of Jewish practice in the early Church. It was the Conscience of the Church that prevailed (Orthodox concept). Paul chastized Peter who was wrong and being hypocritical over the issue and the conscience of the Church went with Paul’s interpretation. Peter did not have authority over the group (certainly was not infallible) or right (it was Paul under the guidance of the Holy Spirit that corrected Peter’s error).

The current Pope has more power and authority in the church than Peter could have dreamed of.

Rev North
Why in the world are you Anglican if you think that the Orthodox Church is the one, true church? That’s really confusing to me. 🤷

As for Paul correcting Peter - c’mon Reverend. You know that papal infallibility only extends to teachings on faith and morals, don’t you? Peter was far from perfect - he denied Christ three times, for crying out loud. In the instance you speak of he was being hypocritical, but he wasn’t teaching on faith and morals. Big difference. There have been many popes, all have been sinners. Some have been very bad men. Fortunately, Christ promised that they would not teach error in the area of faith and morals and none have. That is a miracle that could only occur if it were God ordained.

Plus, the Pope consults with his bishops, cardinals, and theologians. Would this not be akin to the “Conscience of the Church” of which you speak. However, it is up to him to make the final decision on issues of faith and morals. The fact that the Orthodox Church hasn’t had a council in hundreds of years emphasizes the fact that “Conscience of the Church” as Orthodoxy understands it is not workable. One final earthly authority is an imperative.

The Peter-Paul incident you cite was also at a time before the Great Schism when the Orthodox broke from Rome, when there was truly only one Church. There are many similarities between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches. The main disagreement as you know is over papal authority, which caused the schism. Orthodox and people such as yourself would say papal authority is an “invented” doctrine by the Roman Church to assert authority. Catholics would say it was simply a further defining of a dogma. Again, given all the confusion that has come from the lack of this authority in Orthodoxy and protestantism in general, wouldn’t you say that is proof positive of the need for the Pope and the fact that the Chair of Peter was established by Christ?
 
If the loose-leaf authority system enjoyed by the Orthodox were the model established by Jesus, then it doesn’t seem likely that it would’ve taken an entire thousand year period for the Orthodox to figure that out.

From the earliest times, the primacy of the Bishop of Rome as successor of Peter has been acknowledged by the other bishops.

What cultural/politcal factors could have played a big role in the schism? Was it all about papal authority and a handful of theological arguments? Or were there larger issues related to the earlier split of the Empire between east and west, and the fact that the eastern part didn’t finally collapse until 400 years or so after the Schism?
 
Yes, I do believe in what the Pope has stated, but that one true church is the Orthodox church.

But, this debate would be best discussed on the appropriate Eastern Christian Forum wouldnt you agree???
 
Yes, I do believe in what the Pope has stated, but that one true church is the Orthodox church.

But, this debate would be best discussed on the appropriate Eastern Christian Forum wouldnt you agree???
It seems to me this thread has wondered pretty far afield, so what’s the big deal if we discuss this here? I don’t typically wonder over to that forum.
 
Yes, I do believe in what the Pope has stated, but that one true church is the Orthodox church.
Correct me where I’m wrong, as I am not very studied on this subject of the Orthodox churches. It is my understanding that many of the Orthodox, for example the Russians, came under the control of the Soviets during that era between 1917 and 1989.

Doesn’t the absence of a strong central authority make state domination more possible?

Look at what has been going on in China, with the “Patriotic” gov’t controlled “church” there. The Popes have refused to recognize this parody of Catholicism in China, which has enabled a thriving underground, valid Church to exist. A fractured, loosely tied group of national churches wouldn’t be able to bring the sort of pressure to bear on the Chinese that the Popes are able to bring.
 
that prevailed (Orthodox concept). Paul chastized Peter who was wrong
Rev North
  1. Between his conversion and the date of his letter, St Paul had visited Jerusalem three times (cf. Acts 9:26; 11:29-30; 15:1-6). Of these three journeys he here mentions only two, omitting the time he and Barnabas went there (cf. Acts 11:29-30), because that visit was not particularly significant.
The Judaizers’ demands were inadmissible and clearly dangerous. That was why Paul and Barnabas had opposed them openly at Antioch, and in fact it was their failure to achieve unity and peace on this point that had led them to go up to the Holy City to obtain a decision from the Apostles themselves and the priests living in Jerusalem.
  1. The Acts of the Apostles show us how concerned the early Church was about looking after the material needs of its members. We can see this, for example, when it tells us about “serving tables”, which refers to the work of giving help to the needy: this began to take up more and more time, with the result that the seven deacons were appointed to allow the Apostles to concentrate on their own specific work–prayer and the ministry of the word or preaching (cf. Acts 6:1-6).
St Paul was faithful to this charge about not forgetting the poor, as we can see from many references in his letters to collections for the poor (cf. 1 Cor 16:1-3; 2 Cor 8:1-l5; 9:l5; etc.). Indeed, one of the reasons for his last visit to Jerusalem was to hand over the monies collected in the Christian communities of Greece and Asia Minor.

11-14. In his dealing with Jews, St Paul sometimes gave way in secondary matters, provided that this did not take from the essence of the Gospel: he had Timothy, whose mother was Jewish, circumcised “because of the Jews that were in those places” (Acts 16:3), and he himself kept to Jewish practices in order to allay suspicion and jealousy (cf. Acts 21:22-26). Similarly, he recommends patience and certain understanding towards those “weak” in the faith, that is, Christians of Jewish origin who held on to some Jewish observances connected with fast days, clean and unclean food and abstinence from the flesh of animals sacrificed to idols (cf. Rom 14:2-6; 1 Cor 10:23-30). But on the key issue of Christians’ freedom from the Mosaic Law, the Apostle was always firm and unambiguous, relying on the decisions of the Council of Jerusalem.

CONTINUED

Paul’s correction of Peter did not go against the latter’s authority. On the contrary, if it had been just anyone, the Teacher of the Gentiles might have let the matter pass; but because it was Cephas, that is, the “rock” of the Church, he had to take action in order to avoid the impression being given that Christians of Gentile origin were obliged to adopt a Jewish lifestyle.Far from undermining the holiness and unity of the Church, this episode demonstrated the great spiritual solidarity among the Apostles, St **Paul’s regard for the visible head of the Church, **and Peter’s humility in correcting his behavior. St Augustine comments: “He who was rebuked was worthier of admiration and more difficult to imitate than he who made the rebuke …]. This episode serves as a fine example of humility, the greatest of Christian teachings, because it is through humility that charity is maintained” (“Exp. in Gal.”, 15).
  1. When he speaks of these Judaizers as coming “from James”, this does not mean that they had been sent by that Apostle. It is, rather, a reference to their coming from Jerusalem, where, after the persecution organized by Herod Agrippa and the forced flight of St Peter (cf. Acts 12-17), St James the Less remained as bishop. But what is probable is that these Christians, who had not given up the Mosaic Law and Jewish observances, made use of that Apostle’s name: as “the brother of the Lord”, he enjoyed universal veneration and respect.
 

Peter and Paul at Antioch​

[11] But when Cephas came to Antioch I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. [12] For before certain men came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. [13] And with him the rest of the Jews acted insincerely, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their insincerity. [14] But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

(to Rev North- this was the beggining of my last post to you)

It did not make it in somehow.

Good night Rev
 
Is not your argument the same old argument that says you yourself are the final judge in all these matters?
Only in the sense that you are the final judge of whether Catholicism is true, and of which magisterial teachings are binding in what way, and of just what a certain magisterial teaching means (since the Pope, and probably even your bishop, is not available on a Magisterium Hotline for day-to-day consultation). Certainly the absence of a claim of infallibility forces Protestants to exercise personal (not “individual” in a sense that excludes the community) judgment on a more case-by-case basis than Catholics or even Orthodox must do.
Is that not the premise of Protestantism?
No–that notion was a silly invention of modern liberal Protestantism.

There is no premise of Protestantism.

Edwin
 
Only in the sense that you are the final judge of whether Catholicism is true, and of which magisterial teachings are binding in what way, and of just what a certain magisterial teaching means (since the Pope, and probably even your bishop, is not available on a Magisterium Hotline for day-to-day consultation). Certainly the absence of a claim of infallibility forces Protestants to exercise personal (not “individual” in a sense that excludes the community) judgment on a more case-by-case basis than Catholics or even Orthodox must do.
The Catholic undestands Christ founded one Church He guides and speaks through. That does not make the Catholic the final judge on matters of faith and morals. The Protestant is the final judge in these matters. Hence the ever present contradictions in Protestantism.

The Catholic does not need a direct hotline to live as God desires, but he does have recourse to a living authority with direct answers.
No–that notion was a silly invention of modern liberal Protestantism.

There is no premise of Protestantism.

Edwin
What were they Protesting? Did they not want individual authority to decide what God was relating? Who was/ is their authority to determine what God is actually saying?
 
Protestants to exercise personal (not “individual” in a sense that excludes the community) judgment on a more case-by-case basis than Catholics or even Orthodox must do.

Edwin
Please explain the difference between “personal” and “individual”. What’s the difference?

If personal includes the community as you say, in the decison-making process, then how does that differ from obeying directives from the Pope? It sounds like you are using the community as the final arbiter of personal decision-making which would not make it personal at all.

But if personal does not mean that, then how does it differ from your definition of “individual”?
 
Rev Dr North posted:
Catholic Church is the first Protestant Church. It went into schism and broke away from the Church founded by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. .
Yes of course Dr North! 😛

It is good that you are so passionate about Orthodoxy 👍

How does this fit with your support of the Anglican position? :cool:
 
Correct me where I’m wrong, as I am not very studied on this subject of the Orthodox churches. It is my understanding that many of the Orthodox, for example the Russians, came under the control of the Soviets during that era between 1917 and 1989.

Doesn’t the absence of a strong central authority make state domination more possible?

Look at what has been going on in China, with the “Patriotic” gov’t controlled “church” there. The Popes have refused to recognize this parody of Catholicism in China, which has enabled a thriving underground, valid Church to exist. A fractured, loosely tied group of national churches wouldn’t be able to bring the sort of pressure to bear on the Chinese that the Popes are able to bring.
Do we want to throw historical trash at each other because there are many examples to government influence in the medieval, Frankish, Medeci times of the church in Rome.
 
Yes, I do believe in what the Pope has stated, but that one true church is the Orthodox church.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Why should I believe there is one true denomination when the Catholics and Orthodox can’t decide between themselves which is the true denomination. And when the criteria Catholic apologists use to promote their denomination as the one true church can not even separate them from the Orthodox.

At least we don’t make the lofty claim of “one true church” status.
 
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Why should I believe there is one true denomination when the Catholics and Orthodox can’t decide between themselves which is the true denomination. And when the criteria Catholic apologists use to promote their denomination as the one true church can not even separate them from the Orthodox.

At least we don’t make the lofty claim of “one true church” status.
These are just the opinions of a handful of people who like to argue. I seriously doubt they are representative of the wider populations of either branch. Efforts towards reunion have been underway for a long time.
 
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Why should I believe there is one true denomination when the Catholics and Orthodox can’t decide between themselves which is the true denomination. And when the criteria Catholic apologists use to promote their denomination as the one true church can not even separate them from the Orthodox.

At least we don’t make the lofty claim of “one true church” status.
Nope but Weseyans often criticize Calvinists for having untrue theology and the Assemblies of God (at least the one I attended) was for ever making jokes about Baptists and implying that if you did not speak in tongues you were not saved.

Every denomination has issues (we are all sinful human beings). Remember people here are posting on a board and tend to speak in a little more hyperbole.

Rev North
 
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