Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

[friardchips]

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone can acquire a gun legally. Believe it or not there are gun control laws in place. Some states have more stringent laws than others.

I am beginning to think that the U.S. you have in mind may be more of a caricature.

So, some are allowed guns but not others?!! :bigyikes:

And there are no gun laws to regulate usage when people have got them?!! :bigyikes:

A self-exposed caricature because it is the U.S. who plasters and has since time and memorial plastered the world with films and documentaries about life in the U.S!

Or rather, the truth behind the mask of the ‘American dream’, is the nightmare: fear.

Fortunately, there is also a definite devotion to Our Lady in the U.S - hopefully growing - for those who aren’t fooled by the pride of “strong lions”.

 

[friardchips]

My opinion is that vodka should be illegal… even Western vodka. God didn’t mean potato’s for that!

He meant potatoes to be eaten with salt and butter. Yum.

 

[KSU]

…western Vodka is nothing like as strong as real Russian Vodka so I can’t imagine what the real stuff does to the brain and temperament.

Trust me, it’s good stuff. My parents were of mostly Polish extraction (with a little Magyar for spice), and as you know there is no difference between the Polish and Russian people-- except that Poland had no guns and somewhat free priests. The USSR had all the guns and phony or dead priests because in the secular world might makes right…

 

[Brendan]

First, if you could answer the question I asked in #442.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13095678&postcount=442

Again, bearing in mind the topic… do you think that Pope Francis comments are exclusively directed towards those traditionally unfriendly countries arms industries and not to the arms industries in general across the ‘friendly’ world such as USA? Do you not think that he is addressing the profit driven agendas of all nations trades as being responsible for unwarranted violence and death in the world?]

I would say that it is directed towards the third world arms industry.

If you think otherwise, could you explain how ASC making submarines for the RAN brings about “unwarranted violence and death in the world”

Or having Thales Australia manufacture armored cars and sell them to the Dutch? Does that mean the the ADF or Thales is guilt of hypocrisy

And as to the bombing of the Auschwitz railway spurs. I would answer his Holiness in two ways. Auschwitz was outside the effective bombing range of Allied aircraft. Berlin was pushing it, both from a range standpoint, and survivability of the aircraft through German anti-aircraft batteries and Luftwaffle air. The Russians could have mounted such at attack, but the Western powers could not.

And then finally, the technology of the time did not permit such precision. It was hard enough to hit a factory with the bombsights of the day, let alone something as narrow as a railline. The Allies tried strategic bombing against rail yards, which are MUCH larger, but the only way to hit a bridge or a railline was with fighter bombers such as the P-47, that had ranges even less than the big bombers.

 

[KSU]

My opinion is that vodka should be illegal… even Western vodka. God didn’t mean potato’s for that!

Correct! Potatoes are to be baked and loaded with sour cream, chives and butter, and eaten with steak and red wine. Followed soon thereafter with creme brulee and decaf coffee sweetened with Baileys Irish Cream.

We gun-toting Americans have so much to teach the world.

 

[LongingSoul]

Correct! Potatoes are to be baked and loaded with sour cream, chives and butter, and eaten with steak and red wine. Followed soon thereafter with creme brulee and decaf coffee sweetened with Baileys Irish Cream.

We gun-toting Americans have so much to teach the world.

Well I might just die from a heart attack after eating that dinner!

That is if I haven’t died from you opening the wine bottle…

i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/Trishyliz/a-million-ways-to-die-in-the-west-movie-review-image-6_zpszgscp2vk.jpg

 

[KSU]

So, some are allowed guns but not others?!! :bigyikes:

That’s correct. We want to make folks from the UK, Australia and Canada feel right at home. So they are not permitted to even touch or fire a weapon unless accompanied by an American over the age of 16; 12 in Texas.

And there are no gun laws to regulate usage when people have got them?!! :bigyikes:

How did you come up with that?

A self-exposed caricature because it is the U.S. who plasters and has since time and memorial plastered the world with films and documentaries about life in the U.S!

True, but Hollywood generally is not regarded as being American.

Or rather, the truth behind the mask of the ‘American dream’, is the nightmare: fear.

True again. Most Americans fear becoming like Europe, while a minority of Americans push for exactly that.

Fortunately, there is also a definite devotion to Our Lady in the U.S - hopefully growing - for those who aren’t fooled by the pride of “strong lions”.

You are on a roll! True yet again–although I don’t get the “strong lions” reference.

 

[KSU]

Well I might just die from a heart attack after eating that dinner!

That is if I haven’t died from you opening the wine bottle…

Touche.

 

[Brendan]

I am not disagreeing. However, it is about putting things in proportion. Could you post the catechism reference please?

Evangelicum Vitae #55

Moreover, “legitimate defence can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life, the common good of the family or of the State”. Unfortunately it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose action brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason

The reference given is CCC 2265

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

 

[friardchips]

Trust me, it’s good stuff. My parents were of mostly Polish extraction (with a little Magyar for spice), and as you know there is no difference between the Polish and Russian people-- except that Poland had no guns and somewhat free priests. The USSR had all the guns and phony or dead priests because in the secular world might makes right…

Poland’s Catholic not Orthodox. Poland is not a communist country. Russia is colder.

These are enough differences to understand why Russians drink even more than the Poles. And could do with ceasing (nod to LongingSoul too) to put all their potatoes in one sack!

 

[friardchips]

Correct! Potatoes are to be baked and loaded with sour cream, chives and butter, and eaten with steak and red wine. Followed soon thereafter with creme brulee and decaf coffee sweetened with Baileys Irish Cream.

We gun-toting Americans have so much to teach the world.

Really hungry now!

 

[friardchips]

Evangelicum Vitae #55

The reference given is CCC 2265

Thanks, Brendan. Notice the emphasis is on defence. Will read again in more depth later. We are certainly not called to pacifism.

The document says nothing about arms profiteering or irresponsible selling of arms.

It must be a long job to enumerate the military ‘defence’ capabilities of the U.S.

Funny how this military might doesn’t extend to defence, in reality, but only ever to revenge or gain.

 

[friardchips]

I think the Pope’s position on this could be summed up in Psalm 33: 'Praise of the Lord’s Care and Wisdom - (in some Bibles Psalm 34, I think) - especially this part:

'Glorify the Lord with me. Together let us praise His name.
I sought the Lord and He answered me; from all my terrors He set me free.’

• and …

*'The angel of the Lord is encamped around those who revere Him, to rescue them.

Taste and see that the Lord is good. He is happy those who revere Him.

Revere the Lord, you His saints. They lack nothing, those who revere Him.

Strong lions suffer want and go hungry but those who seek the Lord lack no blessing.’*

In the first paragraph, the text speaks of being free from terror. Fear-mongering does not bring true freedom. Freedom is love unbound from fear.

In the second set of verses, notice how “strong lions” is pitted as being diametrically opposed to those who rely on our Creator’s power.

And this is, I think, what Pope Francis was saying, in part - which another poster commented on - that we are to put our trust in our Creator not in men. Because, as this psalm notes: it is the Lord who provides. If we put our trust in Him then all else will fall into place.

We put our faith in men and arms and this is what happens - the use of arms in not appropriated in the right ways by those in power. They amass billions of dollars worth of military might and don’t know what to do with it. Maybe less is more. For them it is all or nothing - war or neutrality. Either way, I don’t think it can be said that governments are taking much notice of the pope or Psalm 33!

(Maybe if the world stopped doing Yoga and started praying the Rosary then we would not be in this mess ).

 

[Sarcelle]

So, some are allowed guns but not others?!! :bigyikes:

And there are no gun laws to regulate usage when people have got them?!! :bigyikes:

A self-exposed caricature because it is the U.S. who plasters and has since time and memorial plastered the world with films and documentaries about life in the U.S!

Or rather, the truth behind the mask of the ‘American dream’, is the nightmare: fear.

Fortunately, there is also a definite devotion to Our Lady in the U.S - hopefully growing - for those who aren’t fooled by the pride of “strong lions”.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

People who have a criminal record cannot obtain guns legally. Of course they can obtain guns illegally. There are laws that govern its usage which varies from state to state.

You should know better than to believe Hollywood films are an accurate representation of American life. If you do, there 's a bridge I want to sell you.

As for your accusation of fear, what do you think Americans are afraid of?

 

[Suudy]

My opinion is that vodka should be illegal… even Western vodka. God didn’t mean potato’s for that!

My family is of Lithuanian descent, and potato vodka was the only acceptable kind. The grain vodkas were uždrausta.

My uncle and father told me stories of my maternal grandfather and her brother making their own. Every year they had a field set aside exclusively for potatoes just for their vodka. They called it Wynoochee River Water (after the river nearby).

Now, I never knew my great-grandparents, and my grandmother and grandfather were a teetotalers by the time I was old enough to talk about such things. But from what I gathered from my uncle and father, potatoes were the only acceptable vodka source. I don’t know if that’s traditional for Lithuania, but it apparently was for whatever area my great-grandparents emigrated from.

 

[Suudy]

As for your accusation of fear, what do you think Americans are afraid of?

Indeed. I live in Idaho, probably one of the most gun friendly states in the country. Nearly everyone I know, both in my neighborhood, at work, businesses nearby, etc, own guns. Mostly rifles and shotguns for hunting, but many have handguns as well.

And there’s no fear of guns or of gun violence here.

 

[KSU]

Yes, of course it would be offensive, and, no, I did not say or imply that Orthodox priests are phony. I was referring to the Orthodox clergy that sided with the USSR butchers against the Orthodox and Catholic people alike. And to say they were merely “phony” is a kindness.

And while we are at it, how about returning all the Catholic Church property the USSR-friendly clergy took from the Catholic Church after Stalin outlawed Roman Catholicism.

 

[friardchips]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

People who have a criminal record cannot obtain guns legally. Of course they can obtain guns illegally. There are laws that govern its usage which varies from state to state.

You should know better than to believe Hollywood films are an accurate representation of American life. If you do, there 's a bridge I want to sell you.

As for your accusation of fear, what do you think Americans are afraid of?

Not just films. Documentaries and writing and everything else. If the U.S continually succeeds in building propaganda campaigns about what life is like in the U.S then what do you expect!

No one is saying that all Americans are locked in fear and paranoia. But you are being disingenuous if you are now attempting to persuade me that N. America is not the equivalent of one huge police state. Posters on here in the past have told me so on here so it is not a guess.

There is a lot of junk that comes from your country and this country always follows in the shadow of the U.S. However, after having spent time on this forum, and after having met some priests from that part of the world, I have softened towards America in my own feelings. But this doesn’t make your country’s politics enviable, and U.S international politics is not secret; sly, but not secret.

Accusation - no; assessment - yes.

Who sells those people the guns illegally?

And I didn’t mean illegally anyway. You have misinterpreted my post. It had no hidden meaning; I was asking the question as I wrote it.

If you are telling me that some people can carry guns and some people can’t then don’t be surprised if you receive a shock-reaction. If you write clearly then I will answer clearly.

 

[friardchips]

Indeed. I live in Idaho, probably one of the most gun friendly states in the country. Nearly everyone I know, both in my neighborhood, at work, businesses nearby, etc, own guns. Mostly rifles and shotguns for hunting, but many have handguns as well.

And there’s no fear of guns or of gun violence here.

Who would notice what fear is when the whole of a culture is immersed in it. Until of course, there is a school shooting, which eventually is brushed under the carpet - a few concerned looking politicians, a few: “We’ll do this, we’ll look into that”. Then nothing. Why? Two reasons:

1. Because half of the world’s wealth is owned by American land owners who are simply too powerful to be reckoned with.
2. Because the illness is in the gun-ho / land of prosperity culture.

What the U.S. could do is spend less money on arms development and more on social reform.

 

[Sarcelle]

Not just films. Documentaries and writing and everything else. If the U.S continually succeeds in building propaganda campaigns about what life is like in the U.S then what do you expect!

No one is saying that all Americans are locked in fear and paranoia. But you are being disingenuous if you are now attempting to persuade me that N. America is not the equivalent of one huge police state. Posters on here in the past have told me so on here so it is not a guess.

There is a lot of junk that comes from your country and this country always follows in the shadow of the U.S. However, after having spent time on this forum, and after having met some priests from that part of the world, I have softened towards America in my own feelings. But this doesn’t make your country’s politics enviable, and U.S international politics is not secret; sly, but not secret.

Accusation - no; assessment - yes.

Who sells those people the guns illegally?

And I didn’t mean illegally anyway. You have misinterpreted my post. It had no hidden meaning; I was asking the question as I wrote it.

If you are telling me that some people can carry guns and some people can’t then don’t be surprised if you receive a shock-reaction. If you write clearly then I will answer clearly.

Funny, I was under the impression that the UK is more of a police state than the U.S. From what I read and see on documentaries, Big Brother in the form of cameras are everywhere.

Anyway, pot, kettle, black. The UK’s history on the world stage is not immaculate either.

Anyway we will have to agree to disagree and in spite of it all I hold you in high regard.

Cheers.