Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

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JimmyG88 said:
If this was my first contact with humanity I could only conclude, having read most of this thread, that you are a really bloodthirsty lot
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Thank you.

I seem to recall during that time we called a revolution the British had their own way of being a bloodthirsty lot as well.
 
Why do some people get so offended when someone disagrees with opinions from the Pope? Its almost as if one believes the pope can do no wrong when it comes to matter not are not Faith involved.
 
Tbrightson said:
ca.news.yahoo.com/pope-says-weapons-manufacturers-cant-call-themselves-christian-184139430.html

“It makes me think of … people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons”
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It’s hard to know what he is saying here. First he says making weapons is not Christian but than he says if only nations would have bombed the railways that took Jews to the death camps it would have been good. How could that have happened if those bombs weren’t made?

Is this more misinterpretations going on?
 
xNoOnex said:
ISIS rose to power specifically because the “Just War” doctrine wasn’t followed. Remember, one of the required elements is that the war cannot result in a greater evil, but that’s just what happened. The removal of Saddam Hussein under the Bush administration and later our support (albeit indirectly) of the Syrian rebels. Many modern wars, at least concerning Western involvement in them, directly lead to the rise of groups like ISIS.
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It is impossible for us to know what kind of unforeseen consequences can result from a military action. No one could have predicted the rise of ISIS in the aftermath of the Iraq War. In fact, one could argue that the abandonment of Iraq by Obama helped lead to their rise.

Ishii
 
xNoOnex said:
Arm manufacturers not only build weapons with the intent to kill, but profit from their sale. While there’s nothing wrong with protecting one’s nation or family, do you really think it should be a multi-billion dollar business?

ISIS rose to power specifically because the “Just War” doctrine wasn’t followed. Remember, one of the required elements is that the war cannot result in a greater evil, but that’s just what happened. The removal of Saddam Hussein under the Bush administration and later our support (albeit indirectly) of the Syrian rebels. Many modern wars, at least concerning Western involvement in them, directly lead to the rise of groups like ISIS.
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Remind me of when George Bush left office? Oh, 2009 and you say he is responsible for the rise of ISIS??

ISIS has been much more active in Syria, the ruling family of Syria has bombed the daylights out of their own people for decades and of course, the USSR and Russia and Iran have funded that regime greatly. Your statement sounds like disinformation. Saddam Hussein was convicted of genocide against his own people. So, are you saying not doing anything would have been proper??
 
ISIS’'s weapons are mostly heavy weaponry made by Russia or the USSR, since they have drubbed the government of Assad largely. I do agree, that in this case, the weapons manufacturers are not Christian and that ISIS rise is tied to the ruling regiment in Damascus.
 
justsomeguy085 said:
Why do some people get so offended when someone disagrees with opinions from the Pope? Its almost as if one believes the pope can do no wrong when it comes to matter not are not Faith involved.
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This thread is not about a disagreement with the Pope. It is a gross misrepresentation of his speech for shock effect in the media. It seems people are going out of their way to invent controversay that makes the Pope look unreasonable.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
This thread is not about a disagreement with the Pope. It is a gross misrepresentation of his speech for shock effect in the media. It seems people are going out of their way to invent controversay that makes the Pope look unreasonable.
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Not a gross misrepresentaion AT ALL, at least not in this case. The text of what he says speaks for itself and he is at the very least calling those Christians involved in manufacturing weapons hyprocrites or at worst not Christians at all. Maybe that is not what he intended to say, but he said it nonetheless. I think it would serve him well to think more before he talks.
 
friardchips said:
The Irish in times long gone sure picked a hazardous place to settle. I wonder why these preditors are on the increase. It might be because of the lack of indigenous people living in those areas? I am guessing. Wild pigs are lethal. I think it would be a tough fight between a mountain lion and a feral hog. The lion would win though. Hog, second. Wolf, third. IMO. Bears would win overall, especially with a gun. I thought black bears were in Canada not the U.S! You really do have a lot to contend with. I feel sorry for the Moose. They are a bit out on a limb, aren’t they.
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Moose live far north of here.

Predators are on the increase because their natural prey (deer, in the case of mountain lions) is increasing, and because they’re protected for the most part. Feral hogs are not, though. They are “shoot on sight” at any season of the year. One would be very heavily fined for shooting a mountain lion or black bear unless in self defense. I, of course, do not favor widespread protection of predators, but environmentalists who care much more for animals than for people, rule such things.

Population in the countryside is decreasing in some places, but (as where I live) greatly increasing in others. There are not enough hunters in most places, and some things are protected. Wild game is massively increased from what it was when I was a child. When I was a kid, I never saw otters, mink, or eagles. Now I see them all the time. Nobody traps otters or mink for fur anymore and it’s illegal to so much as possess an eagle feather.

Growing up, I rarely saw deer or coyotes. Now, if one is in the country, one sees them nearly every day.

But there are compensations to an Irish-descended person for moving here. For one thing, we’re a lot farther away from Russia. 🙂
 
ishii said:
It is impossible for us to know what kind of unforeseen consequences can result from a military action. No one could have predicted the rise of ISIS in the aftermath of the Iraq War. In fact, one could argue that the abandonment of Iraq by Obama helped lead to their rise.

Ishii
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Obama knew ISIS was on the rise when he abandoned Iraq. His intelligence and military people, and Iraqis all told him that.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
This thread is not about a disagreement with the Pope. It is a gross misrepresentation of his speech for shock effect in the media. It seems people are going out of their way to invent controversay that makes the Pope look unreasonable.
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Oh come on, going out of their way is taking it a little far. There have been numerous threads on CAF over the last couple years from good and faithful Catholics completely confused and confounded by things the Pope says.
 
Tbrightson said:
Not a gross misrepresentaion AT ALL, at least not in this case. The text of what he says speaks for itself and he is at the very least calling those Christians involved in manufacturing weapons hyprocrites or at worst not Christians at all. Maybe that is not what he intended to say, but he said it nonetheless. I think it would serve him well to think more before he talks.
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Have you read my post #140? That is a straightforward understanding of what the Pope said.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Have you read my post #140? That is a straightforward understanding of what the Pope said.
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Yes I did:

“He was preaching against trusting only in men, as he said: “If you trust only in men, you have lost!.” Immediately after saying that, he went on to illustrate an example of trusting only in men, in terms of men who manufacture weapons. It is not that these men are doing anything intrinsically evil. It is they cannot be the sole object of our trust.”

So in other words, you cant trust men like those weapons manufacturers; the gall of them to call themselves Christians!

Im supposed to believe this is a charitble remark?
 
Tbrightson said:
Yes I did:

“He was preaching against trusting only in men, as he said: “If you trust only in men, you have lost!.” Immediately after saying that, he went on to illustrate an example of trusting only in men, in terms of men who manufacture weapons. It is not that these men are doing anything intrinsically evil. It is they cannot be the sole object of our trust.”

So in other words, you cant trust men like those weapons manufacturers; the gall of them to call themselves Christians!

Im supposed to believe this is a charitble remark?
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I think you are misreading that. Being the SOLE OBJECT of our trust is markedly different from not being able to place trust.

That is 100% true in Catholic theology. Our SOLE OBJECT of trust is Christ. Part of that trust is in Divine Providence. We trust farmers to provide our food, truckers to transport it, medical professional to heal us, (and Sam Colt to equalize us 😉 )

But in none of those cases are men the sole object of our trust. It is no disrespect to farmers, truckers and doctors to make a claim that they are not the sole object of our trust.
 
Brendan said:
But in none of those cases are men the sole object of our trust. It is no disrespect to farmers, truckers and doctors to make a claim that they are not the sole object of our trust.
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Unless they are weapons manufacturers, then we can disrespect them by mocking their claim to be Christian.

And why would he use “weapons manufacturers”? I mean how many of us are making them the “sole object of trust”…I would think a politician would be more appropriate.

For example a Catholic politician who supports killing babies could quite rightly have their Christian bona fides examined. It is not immoral to make weapons, it certainly is immoral to support baby killing.

So, you see your interpretation makes no sense. This was a slam on weapons manufacturers plain and simple.
 
friardchips said:
That’s quite an informative post. Mountain lions, in the U.S? You have wolves too?! The most dangerous animals on view that we have in the U.K, seem to be humans, after pub hours! 😃 They try to get run over when I drive past on safari.
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Not to mention bears, lots of bears.

Look for bears using hot tubs in Youtube. You’ll see videos of bears using people’s hot tubs.
 
Sarcelle said:
Not to mention bears, lots of bears…
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We’ve encountered those when hiking with my scout troop. All the encounters have ended amicably, but there is that familiar motto “Be Prepared”

That is one of the reasons that I carry a .45LC revolver on those hikes.
 
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