Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

[Brendan]

It is quite common, and the deer are quite destructive.

Same here in Michigan. If a farmer’s crops are being damaged by deer, the farmer can apply for a destruction of property permit. If granted, that allows him\her to cull the deer.

Such a permit is separate from regular hunting season.

And deer are quite destructive, as my wife will attest with her garden. We had several cherry trees that they ate almost all the leaves from. We lost one of the trees, but salvaged the rest by keeping chicken wire domes over them for several summers, until they got tall enough that the leaves were not easily reached.

They have the same relationship to crops that fox have with hens.

They also have a very nasty habit. Being a prey animal, when something threatening, like a car comes, they stand still and hope to be unnoticed. But if they threat gets close, they try to run. In the case of a car, this habit results in deer jumping out of nowhere right in front of moving cars.

Hitting a 150 lbs at standard speeds usually destroys the car, and sometimes even kills the occupants.

In that sense, they are more dangerous than sharks. In the US, about 130 people die each year as a result of car\deer collisions, but only 10 to shark attacks.

 

[gracepoole]

Maybe I should start a new thread about this, but I’d be interested in hearing from others as to what their impressions are about Pope Francis’s troublesome relationship with the media.

There always seems to be an explanation, like comments being taken out of context or translation errors, but I don’t believe there’s ever been another Pope with the ability to create so much havoc every other time he opens his mouth.

Is it him, speaking imprudently? Is it satan, creating confusion and discord? Are the media and public creating the controversies out of nothing? Where is this all coming from???!!!

He has a very different relationship with the media from any of his predecessors and it is perplexing. I’ve come to dread seeing anything about him in the mainstream press, because it’s usually accompanied by an uproar that focuses the world on falsehoods and reaffirms misconceptions about the Catholic Church.

No need to start a new thread – simply use the search feature and you’ll find plenty of folks discussing this. There is, however, a need for those who panic about Pope Francis to actually listen to what he says with an open mind. Christ created a lot of havoc when He opened His mouth, too. Who cares how the pope is represented by others?

 

[Tbrightson]

Hitting a 150 lbs at standard speeds usually destroys the car, and sometimes even kills the occupants.

In that sense, they are more dangerous than sharks. In the US, about 130 people die each year as a result of car\deer collisions, but only 10 to shark attacks.

I hit a buck once in the dark. Hit the front driver pillar, cracked the windshield. I turned around to see where he was…so in the dark I am looking to the left, to the right then…oh cr*p there he is laying dead center of the road!..too late to swerve…and so me and my Saturn ran hit the deer twice…

 

[KSU]

…I can’t imagine if people were allowed guns here.

Do you think maybe the U.S. has a bigger problem with the idea of less gun usage because of a kind of (excuse the cliched term) cowboy-esque lifestyle / history of your people, due to living in amongst wild habitat - along with the obvious factor of gun licences and tight government enforcement over the country - as I do believe that people have a natural (and also do develop) relationship with their environments?

friardchips, I feel sorry for you. You seem to be an intelligent fellow, but you appear to enjoy the fact that you and your loved ones are at the mercy of violent thugs, just so England can ban guns. Despite the huge increase in the number of your police, the murder rate is higher than the pre-ban rate, and people can’t effectively defend their lives and property. American politicians know they would loose the next election if they tried to subject Americans to such tyranny.

Further, your complete lack of understanding about nature and hunting (no offense intended) is another thing most red-blooded Americans will never understand. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but why attack the freedoms we Americans have to defend ourselves and hunt? Are you under the impression that Catholicism somehow frowns on our freedoms? As you know, we consider them God-given rights; not subject to the political whims of the state. How ironic: the country that gave the world the Magna Carta now deprives its people of basic rights.

Anyway, my friend, if you are going to subject us to all that PETA nonsense, at least you could balance the scales by posting an appropriate picture of PETA’S most famous member, Pam Anderson.

 

[friardchips]

We live 2 miles outside of town in a developed subdivision with 2 - 4 acre lots surrounded by woods and partially wooded ranches. We own 2 lots totaling 5 acres with stands of oaks, cedar elms, mexican sycamores, cedar, and pecan trees. We have mountain lions, bobcats, coyotes, wild feral hogs, beaver, river otter, armadillos, deer, foxes, squirrels, raccoons, possum, snakes of all kinds, and birds galore. The mountain lions are rare but my neighbor saw a bobcat last week on my property. The river otters are in our shared 3 acre pond right now. Beautiful creatures and they are welcome to eat all the fish they want.

To tell you the truth, the cowboy culture might have been a factor at one time but not so much anymore at least here. It is a freedom thing. For the most part in rural areas people grow up with firearms and use them as tools. I was derided on here for referring to my pistol as a tool but that is all it is to me. I am pretty much armed all the time with a pistol on me or nearby, They do get in the way when doing work and getting them dirty requires cleaning.

I keep a .22 rimfire, 2 - 12 ga shotguns (one with game loads, one with 00 buckshot), a .223 semi auto (not an AR) with holographic sight with magazines locked in with chambers empty. These the shotguns are tactical shotguns. Every now and then something comes along that annoys me like water moccasins or rattlesnakes that infringe on my world. If they stay in their world I leave them alone. Coyotes and wild hogs are the main nemesis. The county pays a bounty on these as they do damage the cattle and other livestock. I have had wild hogs come after me and it ain’t fun. Bears were mentioned here but if anyone has not dealt with an angry 300 lb boar they have not lived.

We have a culture of loving our freedom. The big urban areas are anti-gun politically but there are still freedom loving men and women in the cities. All of the neighbors here are the same. I open carry often. I have spoken with sheriff deputies while carrying on my property. Never has any LEO ever cared because they know we are the really good guys. Statistics prove it.

Well, I wouldn’t say I could ever make the equation: guns = freedom; nevertheless, you have shed some light for me on the subject from another person’s perspective and I have enjoyed reading your sharing of interesting info. regarding your own living environment.

 

[friardchips]

friardchips, I feel sorry for you. You seem to be an intelligent fellow, but you appear to enjoy the fact that you and your loved ones are at the mercy of violent thugs, just so England can ban guns. Despite the huge increase in the number of your police, the murder rate is higher than the pre-ban rate, and people can’t effectively defend their lives and property. American politicians know they would loose the next election if they tried to subject Americans to such tyranny.

Further, your complete lack of understanding about nature and hunting (no offense intended) is another thing most red-blooded Americans will never understand. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but why attack the freedoms we Americans have to defend ourselves and hunt? Are you under the impression that Catholicism somehow frowns on our freedoms? As you know, we consider them God-given rights; not subject to the political whims of the state. How ironic: the country that gave the world the Magna Carta now deprives its people of basic rights.

Anyway, my friend, if you are going to subject us to all that PETA nonsense, at least you could balance the scales by posting an appropriate picture of PETA’S most famous member, Pam Anderson.

Thank you. Well, I don’t know much about that woman, but I do know she is a person who battled cancer bravely. That is it. The gun issue, which here in the U.K. we understand to be the case, is that if you give people guns. then they are reassuring themselves as being safe by carrying a gun but this would do away with ‘trusting’.

The Christian is called into situations in life that put him or herself at risk. If not, then religious Orders would carry guns too. “Thou shalt not kill.” Our Lord rightly said, that if one lives by the sword, then one dies by it. St. Francis managed to live without guns, and he was around animals all the time, probably in areas where there were wild ravenous wolves. And we are all called to be saints too. He thought of creation as his friend - a gift from our Creator. He called animals “Brother this” or “sister that”, to show his love of creation. Laws of the land serve the very general common “good” but can in themselves be mixed with injustice (legal abortion etc…) - law of the land is not to the same wise level of Heavenly laws - because law of the land is not centred in moral ethics - although it does overlap - or religious belief, but about property, power, production and money.

The Magna Carta was for the common good, at that time, but as history progresses, the common good changes in each era, according to the needs of the day. The Magna Carta was for a time when ‘lord’s’ ruled the land. If you think that guns, which were not invented then, would be better served placed into everyone’s hands then the amount of danger would increase in this country. Because the meek people would think twice about using them and the nasty ones would not. And the sole reason for the gun, because we don’t have bears and wolves and lions, would be meant for humans. Our country would not survive because of the size. We have enough problems with knife crime. Please don’t inflict the rest of the world with the “fortress” psychology of the americas and their large capacity for ‘fear’-induced order!

 

[philipl]

Yes. But our Lord ate a fish.

The deer is a majestic animal.

Also, the price of the deer raises questions about why it is hunted and sold. It is hunted and sold to restaurants who have to think of fancy things to eat as a delicacy (like whale meat). For me, it is along the lines of people hunting for elephants tusks or for animal fur. Things not needed. Unless you live deep in a forest, in the middle of nowhere, no one need hunt deer for food. It is about profit and sport. Why can’t people just admire their beauty, instead of having to kill everthing in sight.

So your line drawn in the sand it between Mammal and Fish? Its ok to eat fish becuase Jesus did so? Do we know if he also ate red meat?

 

[Tbrightson]

The Christian is called into situations in life that put him or herself at risk. If not, then religious Orders would carry guns too. “Thou shalt not kill.” Our Lord rightly said, that if one lives by the sword, then one dies by it. St. Francis managed to live without guns, and he was around animals all the time, probably in areas where there were wild ravenous wolves

Thou shall not tempt the Lord. Also, God gave us common sense. We have every right to defend our lives.

 

[Corki]

So your line drawn in the sand it between Mammal and Fish? Its ok to eat fish becuase Jesus did so? Do we know if he also ate red meat?

As an observant jew, he would have eaten lamb, at least. And he mentioned killing the fattened calf in the parable of the Prodigal son, so he wasn’t anti-beef either.

 

[friardchips]

The Christian is called into situations in life that put him or herself at risk. If not, then religious Orders would carry guns too. “Thou shalt not kill.” Our Lord rightly said, that if one lives by the sword, then one dies by it. St. Francis managed to live without guns, and he was around animals all the time, probably in areas where there were wild ravenous wolves

One can’t only avoid testing the Spirit by using weapons on people. If saints managed it then so can we.

 

[Brendan]

One can’t only avoid testing the Spirit by using weapons on people. If saints managed it then so can we.

St. Gabriel Possenti managed it.

In 1860, soldiers from Garibaldi entered the mountain village of Isola, Italy. They began to burn and pillage the town, terrorizing its inhabitants.

Possenti, with his seminary rector’s permission, walked into the center of town, unarmed, to face the terrorists. One of the soldiers was dragging off a young woman he intended to rape when he saw Possenti and made a snickering remark about such a young monk being all alone.

Possenti quickly grabbed the soldier’s revolver from his belt and ordered the marauder to release the woman. The startled soldier complied, as Possenti grabbed the revolver of another soldier who came by. Hearing the commotion, the rest of the soldiers came running in Possenti’s direction, determined to overcome the rebellious monk.

At that moment a small lizard ran across the road between Possenti and the soldiers. When the lizard briefly paused, Possenti took careful aim and struck the lizard with one shot. Turning his two handguns on the approaching soldiers, Possenti commanded them to drop their weapons.

wdtprs.com/blog/2015/02/st-gabriel-of-our-lady-of-sorrows-patron-of-handgunners-2/

As an FYI, I have a St. Gabriel Possenti medal sewn into my pistol holster.

 

[Eddie_Mac]

Also, the price of the deer raises questions about why it is hunted and sold. It is hunted and sold to restaurants who have to think of fancy things to eat as a delicacy (like whale meat).

I do not know about other states but in Texas hunters are strictly forbidden from selling any game species (fish included) to restaurants after harvesting the game. Restaurants are forbidden from buying it. Game harvested during the hunt or fishing must be consumed by the harvester or some other person. With respect to deer the hunter must provide written record of disposal of the meat. If the hunter does not want the meat they can donate it to charities that use the meat to feed the poor. Many thousands of deer in Texas are donated to the poor each year.

Hunters are not the horrible people we are made out to be.

 

[styrgwillidar]

…

Hunters are not the horrible people we are made out to be.

Tried hunting when I was younger as part of a Boy Scouts Explorer Post. Decided I didn’t like gutting and cleaning, so I ‘hunt’ with a camera now. But I don’t have anything against anyone who does hunt, some of the nicest adults I ever met were folks I encountered at that time. My brother-in-law hunts during every season- firearm, bow, knife (yes, there are folks who hunt with just a knife).

What folks tend to overlook in the US, is that a substantial amount of the wildlife conservation funding comes via hunting fees and taxes. Some states have started projects to spur interest in hunting by younger folks due to the declining numbers resulting in declining revenues for conservation as well as wildlife and land management.

And in places where the predators have disappeared or been radically reduced, there is a requirement to manage the deer population. I lived in Northern Virginia-- just a couple of miles outside the DC Beltway and a deer came trotting down our street one morning. Lots of folks hurt, and some killed hitting deer with their cars.

 

[friardchips]

St. Gabriel Possenti managed it.

wdtprs.com/blog/2015/02/st-gabriel-of-our-lady-of-sorrows-patron-of-handgunners-2/

As an FYI, I have a St. Gabriel Possenti medal sewn into my pistol holster.

Do you reckon he had any more bullets after the first one! Great story!

 

[friardchips]

I do not know about other states but in Texas hunters are strictly forbidden from selling any game species (fish included) to restaurants after harvesting the game. Restaurants are forbidden from buying it. Game harvested during the hunt or fishing must be consumed by the harvester or some other person. With respect to deer the hunter must provide written record of disposal of the meat. If the hunter does not want the meat they can donate it to charities that use the meat to feed the poor. Many thousands of deer in Texas are donated to the poor each year.

Hunters are not the horrible people we are made out to be.

Interesting again. Good to know there are rules and that hunters have to abide by them. That is reassuring to know.

 

[Brendan]

Interesting again. Good to know there are rules and that hunters have to abide by them. That is reassuring to know.

There is venison (and other meats) sold at restaurants or shops, but that must be farm raised (and yes there are farms that raise deer, bison and other meat animals)

\

 

[Eddie_Mac]

There is venison (and other meats) sold at restaurants or shops, but that must be farm raised (and yes there are farms that raise deer, bison and other meat animals)

\

These farms met meet FDA guidelines the same as any other marketed livestock.

 

[KSU]

The gun issue, which here in the U.K. we understand to be the case, is that if you give people guns. then they are reassuring themselves as being safe by carrying a gun but this would do away with ‘trusting’. **The Pope just told you not to put your trust in man; said the Allies should have bombed German rail lines; and has called for military intervention to stop the current ISIS horrors. Futher, the Swiss Guards today are armed with pistols, and you would be speaking German if not for American weapons. **

“Thou shalt not kill.” **Please stop misquoting God; He said “Thou shall not murder.” God told the Israelites to kill, as you well know. **

Our Lord rightly said, that if one lives by the sword, then one dies by it. After Our Lord told Peter about people who use swords unwisely/unjustly, He told the apostles to buy swords. God does not contradict Himself.

St. Francis managed to live without guns So can you, if you so choose, thanks to people with guns. So stop attacking them.

He thought of creation as his friend - a gift from our Creator. He was absolutely right, so what?

The Magna Carta was for the common good, at that time, but as history progresses, the common good changes in each era…guns…were not invented then Check your powder before you shoot. First, freedom and the rule of law never will go out of style. Those principles were especially in style in America in 1776. Second, Guns were used as early as the 12th century. The Magna Carta, or the so-called “Great Charter of the Liberties” was not agreed to until 1215, and not out of goodness, but by threat of arms.

We have enough problems with knife crime. Please don’t inflict the rest of the world with the “fortress” psychology of the americas and their large capacity for ‘fear’-induced order! ** Well, then, my friend, the path to love-induced order is very clear–the EU and UN should ban knives. That would stop ISIS, too, because they would have to stop cutting off the heads of Christians et al… And you may be right about America’s horrible “fortress” psychology. Perhaps America should adopt the enlightened psychology of Canada and the EU by declaring Biblical speech opposing homosexual behavior as essentially a hate crime.**

 

[Tbrightson]

If saints managed it then so can we.

Umm there is a reason they are called “saints”…

 

[pnewton]

Umm there is a reason they are called “saints”…

Ah, but we are all called to be a saint, even if not in the same way. Some will take the path of pacifism, others will not. As St. Paul taught, we all have spiritual gifts for the building of the body, but not all the same gift.