Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

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KSU said:
Originally Posted by KSU
Are you [BlueKnight] related to (or perhaps attend the same schools as) friardchips?

I was being sarcastic. Both BlueKnight and friardchips seem to have what is almost an aversion to a clear, consistent position regarding the interplay between the use of weapons and Catholicism. To debate them on that topic is akin to nailing quicksilver to a wall.

But I mean that in a good way;)
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:o sorry !!
 
Suudy said:
And there is no more unfair death than the murder of an innocent, helpless individual.

What bothers me is when people speak out one side of their mouth, quoting papa Francis as saying we should spend less time on abortion then out the other side of their mouth saying we should spend more time on gun violence. But when you compare the numbers, it is easy to see abortion takes more lives every week than a whole year by guns.

What appalls me is people’s priorities.
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Ok ! God is great and we are.enough to go for both together. Did you know Andrea.Bocelli who will be singing at your Family Meeting there is pro life and his mother said no to.aborting him ? I thought you would like to know if you did not
 
Suudy said:
Again, I don’t think you are understanding me. I’m not advocating against curbs on arms trade. I’m merely stating the degrees of emphasis. I’ve said nothing contrary to the Church leadership’s position on fighting the culture of death.

Did I say otherwise? Do you think I’m suggesting we ignore arms trade, especially to those nations and organizations that intend to commit great evil with acquired arms?
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I’m very curious as to how this is supposed to work. You curb arms trade how exactly?

Let us suppose, for example, that the UN passes a law regulating the arms trade. And let’s imagine that a country like North Korea thumbs its nose at the UN and ships arms to Iran. (Could happen.)

Now what?

Now in the real world, laws are enforced by armed violence (or the threat thereof). That means that whoever intends to enforce the law regulating arms will have to arm themselves. They’ll have to interdict the arms shipments by the use of arms.

At best, you get a monopolization of arms in the hands of the UN. At worst, you get another excuse for war.

Now maybe the clergy doesn’t worry about small prudential details like that but the rest of us ought to.
 
friardchips said:
My, you apologise a lot.
Dear soul. just say the rosary.
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Hahaha I am ok with apologizing if I have to. Oh! It would be a lot of rosaries :eek:! 🙂
Think of this,and it has to do with the thread. Everybody here is very patient and kind with my second language. So I do understand the difficulties in good faith when communicating.
 
KSU said:
Originally Posted by KSU
Are you [BlueKnight] related to (or perhaps attend the same schools as) friardchips?

I was being sarcastic. Both BlueKnight and friardchips seem to have what is almost an aversion to a clear, consistent position regarding the interplay between the use of weapons and Catholicism. To debate them on that topic is akin to nailing quicksilver to a wall.

But I mean that in a good way;)
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Hardly. I can only speak for myself here. But I read a post by the other poster and this poster seems to have their head well screwed on as well. If you are implying that I am posting under two names, you are wrong. It is not unusual for people to agree. and I would consider your opinion, despite possibly being heard on here, not in the majority.
 
gamewell45 said:
I thought they only carried swords ??
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The swords and pikes are ceremonial and are carried openly but they are a genuine police force with quite the modern arsenal. They are the police force of the Vatican.

guns.com/2014/04/13/guns-swiss-guard/

Oops, KSU beat me to it. I think we both googled “swiss guard” and posted the first article we saw.
KSU said:
Skip the first few paragraphs and scroll down to “Handguns and longarms”

guns.com/2014/04/13/guns-swiss-guard/http://www.guns.com/2014/04/13/guns-swiss-guard/

Pope Francis is not anti-gun. He anti-anti-peace makers.
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This isnt the first time he slammed the weapons makers:

“This is serious. Some powerful people make their living with the production of arms and sell them to one country for them to use against another country … It’s the industry of death, the greed that harms us all, the desire to have more money.”

Again, condemns the weapons industry yet uses weapons in his own defense, wonders why they were not used against the death camps In WWII, and wishes they were used against ISIS.

What gives?

BTW General Dynamic is one of the biggest “Industry of Death”…they make the fighter jets that would bomb ISIS.

Boeing is the second largest (excluding China goverment owned) and made the B17 that owuld have bombed the concentration camps in WWII
 
Tbrightson said:
This isnt the first time he slammed the weapons makers:

“This is serious. Some powerful people make their living with the production of arms and sell them to one country for them to use against another country … It’s the industry of death, the greed that harms us all, the desire to have more money.”

Again, condemns the weapons industry yet uses weapons in his own defense, wonders why they were not used against the death camps In WWII, and wishes they were used against ISIS.

What gives?

BTW General Dynamic is one of the biggest “Industry of Death”…they make the fighter jets that would bomb ISIS.

Boeing is the second largest (excluding China goverment owned) and made the B17 that owuld have bombed the concentration camps in WWII
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I don’t know everyone is finding it difficult to glean the Popes meaning? The global arms trade is a very profit driven, capitalist industry and that’s really not the ideal when it comes to something like weapons of death. Let them be government controlled at least so that the forces of profit and power aren’t compromising the ethical, legitimate use of these deadly machines.
 
LongingSoul said:
I don’t know everyone is finding it difficult to glean the Popes meaning? The global arms trade is a very profit driven, capitalist industry and that’s really not the ideal when it comes to something like weapons of death. Let them be government controlled at least so that the forces of profit and power aren’t compromising the ethical, legitimate use of these deadly machines.
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Which government? I can’t think of a single world government I would trust controlling the arms trade. That seems like a really awful idea to me.
 
LongingSoul said:
I don’t know everyone is finding it difficult to glean the Popes meaning? The global arms trade is a very profit driven, capitalist industry and that’s really not the ideal when it comes to something like weapons of death. Let them be government controlled at least so that the forces of profit and power aren’t compromising the ethical, legitimate use of these deadly machines.
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They are government controlled. Are you familiar with export laws, the requirements for obtaining export licenses indicating which countries weapons (right down to small arms ammunition) are shipped and sold to? There are international agreements including embargoes to specific countries.
 
gamewell45 said:
I thought they only carried swords ??
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Nope, as others have noted, they ARE armed. Even the ones with the halberds carry concealed handguns. And there are many more that you do NOT see, some even with sniper rifles.
 
Brendan said:
Nope, as others have noted, they ARE armed. Even the ones with the halberds carry concealed handguns. And there are many more that you do NOT see, some even with sniper rifles.
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And let’s not overlook the fact that swords and pikes are arms if only ceremonial.

The Swiss Guard have given their lives fighting to protect popes before and came very close to doing so again in WWII as they stared at Nazis across the “border”.
 
styrgwillidar said:
They are government controlled. Are you familiar with export laws, the requirements for obtaining export licenses indicating which countries weapons (right down to small arms ammunition) are shipped and sold to? There are international agreements including embargoes to specific countries.
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Which, if they are anything more than paper declarations, are backed by force of arms.
 
LongingSoul said:
Let them be government controlled at least so that the forces of profit and power aren’t compromising the ethical, legitimate use of these deadly machines.
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It is, at least among the major world powers. A company like Boeing must receive approval from the US Government before it could sell military aircraft to anyone.

And even in your home Australia, you will notice that I cannot just go up to the ASC website, add a couple of Collins class subs to my cart and check out with my Amex 🙂

Arms sales ARE very much restricted.

The worldwide problems are not with the Boeings, the Lockheeds, the ASCs, the Thales Australias or even the Berettas. It is with third world nations that sell arms without such restrictions.

A great example is the AK. Quite a number of nations produce their own versions, it is simple and easy to do, and the then Soviet Union literally GAVE the plans and equipment to many third world allies at the time. There are probably a dozen manufacturing plants in Africa alone that are making them, or Soviet style Rocket Propelled Grenades (RPG;s) Those are the real sources of the illegal arms trades. And yes, most of those African, or Middle Eastern nations DO make a nice profit of it. They can charge a premium for ‘no questions asked’ sales that the Western arms manufacturers cannot legally do.
 
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