Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tbrightson
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I for one am tired of hearing the Pope’s attack on wealth generation and accumulation. People earn wealth to take care of their families and provide for themselves in retirement. People want to live in comfort.

What the Pope needs to address instead are those who prefer to live off the work of others. Women who have baby, after baby with no marriage and no husband, preferring to live off the money the government gives them.

Why is there no focus on WORK and taking care of yourself? I never hear the Pope address the laziness of people. Look at Greece, his own country Argentina, Italy where he lives now, where people rather take government assistance than work.

Why is nothing said about this? I see the Catholic bishops support the illegal immigrants but why doesn’t he condemn the countries like Mexico who are corrupt and fail to provide for their own citizens?

Seems like the Pope is misdirected in his attacks.
The laziness of the people ??
Who do you think you are to state that we do not work?
Describe in detail what goes on,what the Church has promoted in the countries you cited,describe in detail how we sunbathe while you toil , and explain exactly how we get assistance while playing golf swimming in abundance or back off.

I take you have no clue of how aggressively our Pope has struggled against corruption. Read,listen,learn.As you said.
 
Maybe you are not familiar with documentation with regards to the complicity of arms dealers in the commission of war crimes. Human Rights Watch has looked into it.

Here is a good read.

But you are right, I don’t know of any weapons merchants that have been convicted of crimes. But that doesn’t mean they are not guilty. It seems that the justice system favors the rich and powerful.
Have to avoid our friendly neighborhood gun shop that is! I’ve been noticing all the military vehicles frequent around there, and oh yes the gangs! Forgot too they’re responsible for all the murders here in this state. Good old Brownings museum here too should be avoided as they certainly had a hand to all of this including wars! Sure hope Congress shuts the 2nd Amendment down too. Hate people that have guns, and so glad that Pope Francis warned us about this. It’s much more dangerous than abortion, ISIS murders, and immorality in general.
 
In war, there are standards of behavior to which civilized nations should adhere, even when fighting barbarians. If rape, torture and mutilation of 1000 civilians shortens a war, is it moral for a commander to order it?
In most every case of modern war, one of the parties to the war is NOT a civilized nation. Nazi Germany, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Imperial Japan, etc. are/were not civilized nations. If one nation is using rape, killing of civilians, killing prisoners, beheading people, killing because of religious beliefs, etc. then they should be attacked with the same brutality. The only thing brutal, tribal, barbarian understand and submit to is brutal unrestricted warfare.
 
The laziness of the people ??
Who do you think you are to state that we do not work?
Describe in detail what goes on,what the Church has promoted in the countries you cited,describe in detail how we sunbathe while you toil , and explain exactly how we get assistance while playing golf swimming in abundance or back off.

I take you have no clue of how aggressively our Pope has struggled against corruption. Read,listen,learn.As you said.
Look at Greece as an example of what is happening with countries who have taken a Socialist direction. They are crumbling. People not working. People claiming disability without having a disability. People not paying taxes and living off government handouts for generation upon generation.

The Church has not necessarily promoted it and I never said that; but what I said was the Church has not come out and condemned it either. The Pope condemns these so-called greedy capitalists, but does not condemn the lazy who don’t want to work and have dignity of earning what they receive.

I never said the lazy are out playing golf and swimming, those were your statements. What I said is people are not working for what they receive.

I have heard so many times in our own country, "I’m not going to work for $10 when I can make more off government assistance, unemployment, etc. That’s what the Pope should be condemning.

Take Argentina for example. It is the Pope’s home country. At the beginning of the 20th Century, Argentina was a prosperous, growing country with a growing middle class. Then came the politicians offering healthcare and all sorts of social benefits. The country has been on the decline since and has never recovered. A once prosperous country is a economic and social mess. I cannot even recall how many times they defaulted on debt.

In the U.S. some towns in West Virginia have 70% of the people on disability. Really?

Some families in the U.S. are receiving a combined $70K in benefits and do zero work other than continue to breed to get more support.

So if your country is something different than the U.S., then I will get more specific if you like on your own country. But I will bet, whatever country it is, it is heavily Socialistic and hence why it is in decline. Countries moving more towards Capitalism are those with working populations, growing middle classes and a rising standard of living. Some countries on a positive move include China, Brazil, Russia, Chile somewhat.

Those countries moving towards Socialism or those that have embraced Socialism for some time and thus have a declining standard of living include the United States, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Argentina, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Portugal, Iceland, U.K, France, and Spain.
 
In most every case of modern war, one of the parties to the war is NOT a civilized nation. Nazi Germany, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Imperial Japan, etc. are/were not civilized nations. If one nation is using rape, killing of civilians, killing prisoners, beheading people, killing because of religious beliefs, etc. then they should be attacked with the same brutality. The only thing brutal, tribal, barbarian understand and submit to is brutal unrestricted warfare.
You are using civilized in a very peculiar way. What was so remarkable about Nazi Germany was that it was so civilized. Brutal, yes, but in a very legal and civilized way. One might say it is uncivilized to launch a war of aggression or to commit genocide but that is not the usual meaning of the word.
 
What you are quoting is gossip. Quote what Pope Francis actually said to be credible.
Basic reading comprehension.
Gossip, I don’t think so. Read the article. Perhaps you should take your own advice on “basic reading comprehension”.

I quoted verbatim from the BBC. You aren’t going to get more credible than the BBC as a general news source. How would I quote the Pope directly? If you had read the article you would notice the Vatican didn’t release an official statement!

The BBC has a source in the guard and they also obtained information from the L’Osservatore Romano.
 
Wasn’t the pope talking about greed, not profit?

Profit at the expense of the poor. Profit at the expense of unnecessary violence and killing. Indifference due to profit-seeking. etc

Do people profit off of war? Do people want more war to sell more products?
My understanding is that the profitability depends on the type of weapon. Handgun/rifle makers are small fry; essentially a commodity. So the Colts of the world should be left out of it.
 
The role of the Church in regard to warfare has always been to serve as a mediator, and counsel for rules to govern the behavior of both parties, in order to leave the least amount of harm possible.
The Church also counsels for a lessening of evil, which governs the reasons for good people to enter into war in the first place. One of those conditions is that the war will be winnable, for to enter into a war against evil forces, and lose, will not bring about a lessening of evil, but indeed will increase the net evil in the world because of the war itself.

The question then becomes whether or not both sides agree to follow the same rules. If one side decides to ignore the rules that govern warfare, and act as brutally as possible, then if that constitutes an advantage for that side, the other side is obligated to win that war, if the war is still winnable.
It is not a moral thing to do to lose a war because it is not the war that you want to fight. People must get off their high horses and fight the war that is being waged against them, according to the rules that the war is being waged with.
 
It depends on the war. WWII was total warfare and a matter of national survival for many.

The US may not have been fighting for it’s survival but it was helping others who were.

The bombing of German and Japanese cities was brutal and virtually unrestricted warfare long before the atomic bomb came along.
 
Japan was not willing to surrender even with the second atom bomb dropped if it weren’t for the intercession of the Emperor. A land invasion would cost more in lives lost, both for the Allies and the Japanese. .
First of all, Japan was willing to surrender. Secondly, if the Allies accepted the surrender conditions of Japan on January 20, 1945, many more lives would have been saved.
The Japanese had offered to surrender on January 20, 1945 according to terms which were almost identical to the ones signed in September:
The terms included:
• Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
• Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
• Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan.
• Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
• Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
• Surrender of designated war criminals.
Roosevelt received this 40 page memorandum outlining the terms of the conditional surrender of Japan. See: Hiroshima: Assault on a Beaten Foe," National Review, May 10, 1958
So you have two choices, the atom bomb or a land invasion.
.
There were more than two choices. There was a third choice to negotiate a surrender on the terms offered by Japan on January 20, 1945.
 
First of all, Japan was willing to surrender. .
No, they did send an envoy to the USSR to discuss matters, but even then it only had support Prince Konoe and one of the members of the “Team of 6” Ruling Council

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan#Supreme_Council_for_the_Direction_of_the_War

The Allies specifically called only for the unconditional surrender of the military, namely all armed forces personnel. This was diplomatic wording designed to exclude Hirohito and the civilian government.

When this became public ( via dropped leaflets) the Prime Minster announced to the public
I consider the Joint Proclamation a rehash of the Declaration at the Cairo Conference. As for the Government, it does not attach any important value to it at all. The only thing to do is just kill it with silence (mokusatsu). We will do nothing but press on to the bitter end to bring about a successful completion of the war
 
No, they did send an envoy to the USSR to discuss matters, but even then it only had support Prince Konoe and one of the members of the “Team of 6” Ruling Council

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan#Supreme_Council_for_the_Direction_of_the_War

The Allies specifically called only for the unconditional surrender of the military, namely all armed forces personnel. This was diplomatic wording designed to exclude Hirohito and the civilian government.

When this became public ( via dropped leaflets) the Prime Minster announced to the public
Two days before President Roosevelt left for the Yalta conference with Churchill and Stalin in early February 1945, he was shown a forty-page memorandum drafted by General MacArthur outlining a Japanese offer for surrender almost identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, President Truman. - See more at: historynewsnetwork.org/article/129964#sthash.aWTTSxBd.dpuf
 
Two days before President Roosevelt left for the Yalta conference with Churchill and Stalin in early February 1945, he was shown a forty-page memorandum drafted by General MacArthur outlining a Japanese offer for surrender almost identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, President Truman. - See more at: historynewsnetwork.org/article/129964#sthash.aWTTSxBd.dpuf
Yes, I am aware, that came from the Japanese ambassador at the request of Prince Konoe, but without the support of the Japanese Government.

5 of the 6 members of the ruling committee rejected it.
 
Gossip, I don’t think so. Read the article. Perhaps you should take your own advice on “basic reading comprehension”.

I quoted verbatim from the BBC. You aren’t going to get more credible than the BBC as a general news source. How would I quote the Pope directly? If you had read the article you would notice the Vatican didn’t release an official statement!

The BBC has a source in the guard and they also obtained information from the L’Osservatore Romano.
Here are his words. I apologize if some articles were not translated,or not translated properly.

I also apologize for my impatience when his words are twisted,and to your credit,it might not have come out in English.

translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infobae.com%2F2014%2F12%2F07%2F1613694-el-papa-nego-haber-echado-al-jefe-la-guardia-suiza-estricto

infobae.com/2014/12/07/1613694-el-papa-nego-haber-echado-al-jefe-la-guardia-suiza-estricto

aleteia.org/es/religion/noticias/papa-francisco-no-renovara-el-contrato-al-comandante-de-la-guardia-suiza-5818910704140288

“It was merely a renewal, because he finished his term and healthy to know that nobody goes on forever,” said the highest authority of the Catholic Church during an interview with the Argentine daily La Nacion.

“Last year, two months after my election, expired its term of five years. So I told the secretary of state that he could not name or not name. As I did not know him, I decided that its mandate was extended” donec Alitur provideatur “typical formula ‘until otherwise provided,’” said the Pope.

The Pontiff added that "it seemed unfair to make a decision at that time, for or against. But then I was internalizing of the thing, went to visit the barracks, I was with the Swiss Guards an afternoon, I also stayed one night dinner, I got to know people and found healthier renovation. I spoke with him at mid-year, and we agreed that year to go away. I knew from July. "

This is off topic,but it answers the question about his words.
 
Then you do want so many others have done over the years. You start your own company, create something people need be it a service or a product.

Sitting around waiting for a job is not always going to be productive.

As has been said, “Jesus helps those who help themselves.”
Start a company with what capital? Banks going to give a business loan with no collateral? To a person who doesn’t have a pot to pee in?

In the “old days” one could start a business on a shoestring, for instance start feeding people in your house.Try that now with all the regualations and libability concerns.

Its not impossible, but a lot harder to do these days.
 
Because in Japan the USA dropped the bomb on the areas which had great numbers of civilians, not troops or military targets. When U.S. military forces dropped atomic bombs on Japanese civilians at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, 275,000 men, women, and children were killed. About 95% of the people killed by the blast were civilians. The lucky children in Hiroshima were those who died immediately at the time of the blast, while the unlucky children were the survivors who developed horrible radiation sickness and died in terrible agony and suffering a while later.
The entire country and its population was involved in the war effort. There really was not real civilian population in Japan. Everything was a military target.

There is not a lot of distinction between children who die in an Atomic bomb blast or those who die as a result of burns due to conventional weapons. The common fact is it is slow and agonizing. War is horrible for any and all involved directly or indirectly.

The most important facts to remember and cannot be taken way by revisionist history: Our military and civilian leadership determined that we would HAVE to invade the Japanese home islands to bring about a surrender. That such an invasion would bring about 1,000,000 casualties. That the atomic bombs on Japan brought an immediate end to the war and 75% fewer casualties.

Those are the true facts. Period, end of story.
 
Start a company with what capital? Banks going to give a business loan with no collateral? To a person who doesn’t have a pot to pee in?

In the “old days” one could start a business on a shoestring, for instance start feeding people in your house.Try that now with all the regualations and libability concerns.

Its not impossible, but a lot harder to do these days.
Capital can be raised through human effort. In other words, hard work, results in receiving capital, capital can then be used to build a business.

This is what is wrong with education today. It is not teaching people how a capitalistic system works.

People think they have to get a loan from a bank or otherwise to start a business.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top