Pope says yoga courses have no answers

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my wife enjoys it, and she said they do it on ewtn. no fuss, as long as your not participating in the mystical stuff at the beginning of class.
I’m astonished that Catholics would involve themselves with something so spiritually dangerous. The Pope talks about yoga as though it were a spirituality BECAUSE IT IS. Christians try to separate the recreational aspect from the spiritual-Hindu aspect, but it isn’t possible no matter how pure your intentions. It would be like giving your kid a Voodoo doll as a stuffed animal. The physical posturing in yoga is specifically designed to channel “spiritual energies,” as it were. That is the point of yoga. Just because you are a 40 year-old soccer mom in cute yoga pants and you really want to get rid of that spare tire doesn’t justify exposing yourself to spiritual harm

Anyways, thank God for the Pope’s clarity. He probably just lost all of his Seattle supporters. All six of them.
 
Here it is again from Catholic News Service:

“Catechism, yoga, Zen cannot open people’s hearts to God’s love, pope says.”

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1500093.htm

“Courses in yoga, Zen meditation, even extensive studies in church teaching and spirituality can never free people enough to open their hearts to God’s love.”

If you see Pope Francis telling us to stay away from yoga here, you must also conclude he is telling us to stay away from the Catechism. Both conclusions are wrong.
 
It’s the yoga exercises that we are doing. Hence, we call it what it is – yoga.

Not going to lie and call it something else just because some people go off the deep end about it.
I don’t share your opinion that Westerners can butcher a thousands-year old Eastern practice to the point of changing its definition. If Eastern cultures decided to called worry beads “the rosary”, but attached nothing Christian to it, would it be correct to call it a rosary?
They can say it’s not yoga all day long, but the photos they show are of yoga poses.
Look at substance, not just form.
 
Quote from Pope Francis’ morning homily:

“You can take a million catechetical courses, a million courses in spirituality, a million courses in yoga, Zen and all these things. But all of this will never be able to give you the freedom of being a child of God.”

If yoga has no answer, neither does the Catechism? No. Understand what the Holy Father is really saying.
 
Yes, it is just yoga. I love it - it is very beneficial for a lot of things - finding or communing with God not included. At my classes there are three big, high old windows in the room that reflect the shadow of three crosses onto the floor when the sunlight hits them right.
Do you or any other Catholics who do yoga, do any of the things that are cited in post 32 that Pietra Fitness doesn’t do?
 
Sadly, lots of people go to mass on Sunday and go up and receive something they call the Eucharist, but what they believe is that it is merely a symbol of Christ’s body. These people are redefining the word “Eucharist” to suit their own whims and disrespecting Christ himself as well as catholics who really do believe in it (me, for example).

I find that Americans who demand to use the word “yoga” but strip it of all the eastern mysticism that have been a part of yoga for all it’s history are committing a similar form of arrogance and disrespect.

Yoga isn’t ours. We don’t get to define what it is. We should respect the culture from which it sprang enough to acknowledge that yoga IS both a physical exercise and a non-Christian eastern mystical religious practice. Attempting to redefine their word is just culturally rude.

If you like the exercise and stretching activities that are a part of yoga, don’t say you do yoga. Say what you mean. You like the stretching. Great.
 
Do you or any other Catholics who do yoga, do any of the things that are cited in post 32 that Pietra Fitness doesn’t do?
I actually internally say the Jesus Prayer or Hail Marys sometimes during yoga, but I don’t see it as a religious time, I see it as exercise. (Once I even told the whole class in response to a remark from the teacher that I did not support abortion rights. 🙂 One black guy smiled, otherwise frozen awkward silence and staring. The teacher, however, has never mentioned a woman’s right to choose again.) I pray the Jesus prayer (or Hail Marys) during Eucharistic Adoration when I can concentrate and eliminate other thoughts. Where I go for yoga it is very secular and Western, not traditional eastern yoga, which I did in the 90s. I say the Jesus prayer or Hail Marys sometimes when I am running too.
 
Sadly, lots of people go to mass on Sunday and go up and receive something they call the Eucharist, but what they believe is that it is merely a symbol of Christ’s body. These people are redefining the word “Eucharist” to suit their own whims and disrespecting Christ himself as well as catholics who really do believe in it (me, for example).

I find that Americans who demand to use the word “yoga” but strip it of all the eastern mysticism that have been a part of yoga for all it’s history are committing a similar form of arrogance and disrespect.

Yoga isn’t ours. We don’t get to define what it is. We should respect the culture from which it sprang enough to acknowledge that yoga IS both a physical exercise and a non-Christian eastern mystical religious practice. Attempting to redefine their word is just culturally rude.

If you like the exercise and stretching activities that are a part of yoga, don’t say you do yoga. Say what you mean. You like the stretching. Great.
I know it’s not quite the same, but I always feel a certain sadness at the Western use of some traditional eastern martial arts names as well.
 
Another thread on yoga? Here we go round and round again.
I agree with Pope Francis that it doesn’t have any answers, just like a spin class doesn’t, either.
Nor jogging, nor weight lifting, nor eating properly.

It depends on the answers one is looking for.
 
Hatha Yoga seems to be a sort if spiritual education which starts with the physical exercises and positions, then continues in the more advanced stages. In the US, a lot of yoga classes are *only *the physical aspects. Some people do move on and search for classes with a greater Hindu spirituality component, which also exist in at least some parts of the US.

I think that ascribing too much “power” to the physical aspects *as such *might fall into the realm of superstition. The exercises themselves seem to be physically helpful aside from any spiritual component (one can attain the physical benefits without the spiritual components).

So I would say that considering the Pope’s inclusion of the CCC that he is saying something other than all yoga is bad and practically equivalent to using a Oiuji board. Instead, yoga seems like the CCC to be a tool, but one which cannot on its own lead to a love for God.
 
I’m astonished that Catholics would involve themselves with something so spiritually dangerous. The Pope talks about yoga as though it were a spirituality BECAUSE IT IS. Christians try to separate the recreational aspect from the spiritual-Hindu aspect, but it isn’t possible no matter how pure your intentions. It would be like giving your kid a Voodoo doll as a stuffed animal. The physical posturing in yoga is specifically designed to channel “spiritual energies,” as it were. That is the point of yoga. Just because you are a 40 year-old soccer mom in cute yoga pants and you really want to get rid of that spare tire doesn’t justify exposing yourself to spiritual harm

Anyways, thank God for the Pope’s clarity. He probably just lost all of his Seattle supporters. All six of them.
I think this post is on the mark. However, there is not an insubstantial number of well meaning devout Christians that think the physical component of Yoga can be separated from the spiritual. I don’t think they can in a complete manner, although intention does play some role, it seems to me, in the degree of harm done. In a nutshell, it’s playing with fire. At least, that is my view.
 
The best thing about yoga is increased flexibility and balance. It does help a little with muscle strength and toning too and helps to prevent injury from other activities such as regular running. It also helps with weight control, and improves circulation and sleep patterns. Because it is low impact, in its milder forms it can be done by all ages and those with other health issues or injuries, even the very elderly who often see a lot of improvement in their mobility and outlook.
 
So I would say that considering the Pope’s inclusion of the CCC that he is saying something other than all yoga is bad and practically equivalent to using a Oiuji board. Instead, yoga seems like the CCC to be a tool, but one which cannot on its own lead to a love for God.
:thumbsup:Yes, I would agree that your assessment is closer to the heart of the matter, the Holy Father’s true message here.
 
It’s very rare that I find myself in 100% agreement with a single post here at CAF, yet, spot on Havard!
That’s your belief (and mine), which is good, but not universal. Here in Cali, there is a demand for more authentic, real yoga, as people are more experimental with spirituality. IMO it’d be helpful if we just called the stretching portion, stretching, and let yoga be yoga.
This has been my experience as well living in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Sacramento, and now San Diego. The only place I’ve ever seen a truly secular “Yoga” course was at the hospital and it was attended by two geriatrics (likely at the behest of their physicians). My first experience of “Yoga” was here, and I brought a “Yoga” practitioner colleague of mine (who is an avowed atheist materialist). There was no Sanskrit, no Hindu prayers, or any of the other things that I would assume my colleague would call “philosophical mumbo jumbo”. I was surprised to hear him say that this wasn’t “real Yoga” for lack of such spiritual things. I’ve also spoken to Hindu colleagues who are quite offended that pale-skinned westerners are essentially hijacking their practices and stripping them of the necessary elements that they, the actual people who created Yoga feel define the very practice!

I went to four or five other yoga studios recommended to me by various individuals and every single one was seeping with spirituality. “Emptying of one’s consciousness”, “Bhakti Yoga” or the uniting oneself in supreme adoration of Lord Krishna, chanting in Sanskrit, etc. What’s worse is that these studios were usually quite syncretistic, having pamphlets on Astrology, Tarot, and even European neo-paganism!
It’s the yoga exercises that we are doing. Hence, we call it what it is – yoga.

Not going to lie and call it something else just because some people go off the deep end about it.
But it isn’t Yoga. Here’s an honest hypothetical question: If an Easterner were to take the Liturgy of the Mass, strip it of all its religious connotation (or just conveniently ignore the religious connotation) while keeping all the respective body movements prescribed in the rubrics (or through tradition), would you say that person was actually experiencing “Mass”? Even if she were to insist that she doesn’t believe, practice, or follow any of the Jesus stuff in it; it’s just her exercise that’s called “Mass”?

Does the sitting, standing, kneeling, genuflecting, bowing, listening to Gregorian Chant, all lead by a guy wearing a Chasuble make the Mass the Mass, or is it the re-presentation of the singular sacrifice of Christ on Calvary?
 
Sadly, lots of people go to mass on Sunday and go up and receive something they call the Eucharist, but what they believe is that it is merely a symbol of Christ’s body. These people are redefining the word “Eucharist” to suit their own whims and disrespecting Christ himself as well as catholics who really do believe in it (me, for example).

I find that Americans who demand to use the word “yoga” but strip it of all the eastern mysticism that have been a part of yoga for all it’s history are committing a similar form of arrogance and disrespect.

Yoga isn’t ours. We don’t get to define what it is. We should respect the culture from which it sprang enough to acknowledge that yoga IS both a physical exercise and a non-Christian eastern mystical religious practice. Attempting to redefine their word is just culturally rude.

If you like the exercise and stretching activities that are a part of yoga, don’t say you do yoga. Say what you mean. You like the stretching. Great.
Absolutely! 👍
 
I have a general rule of thumb when it comes to “yoga.”

If it in a gym with gym staff, it’s most likely ok, especially if it’s lead by a fitness person.

If it’s at a yoga place with candles, some “zen like person” with lotus poses, incenses, a statue of Buddha, and/or a Hindu god, then bad.

If it feels like a normal gym then you are most likely ok. If it feels like a Buddhist, Hindu, or New Age spirituality thing then bad, as you can open yourself up evil spirits.

Check out Women of Grace on EWTN when they discuss Yoga. NOTE: Women of Grace is perhaps the most anti-yoga Catholic group out there
 
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