Pope Seeks End to Death Penalty

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TEPO said:
"*Pope Benedict XVI voiced support Wednesday for political actions around the world aimed at eliminating the death penalty, reflecting his stance as an opponent of capital punishment.

He made the comments during his weekly public audience to participants at a meeting being promoted by the Catholic Sant’Egidio Community on the theme “No Justice without Life.*”

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/pope-seeks-end-death-penalty-15056658#.TteRv9U7Isk
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I could agree 100% if we could also end murders. Then there would be no cases where use of the death penalty would serve the interests of justice and protection of innocent lives.
 
Trader said:
I could agree 100% if we could also end murders. Then there would be no cases where use of the death penalty would serve the interests of justice and protection of innocent lives.
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Did you know that murder rates are higher in states in the US which have the death penalty compared to neighbouring states which don’t?

So as a deterrent/prevention/solution, it doesn’t seem to be working. Some theories are that the death penalty is so severe, people think it’ll never happen to them.
 
Wow, that news story was actually (mostly) accurate. From the headline, I thought they would overstate things to make the pope’s comments sound like more than they were. But they didn’t really do that.

It’s not really “news”. It’s simply the Pope saying the same thing he’s said before as he greeted this specific group of people.
 
LemonAndLime said:
Did you know that murder rates are higher in states in the US which have the death penalty compared to neighbouring states which don’t?

So as a deterrent/prevention/solution, it doesn’t seem to be working. Some theories are that the death penalty is so severe, people think it’ll never happen to them.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don’t quite buy the “deterrent” argument in favor of the death penalty. If that was the primary goal, why not go back to crucifixion or quartering? That would seem to be a bigger deterrent.
 
TEPO said:
"*Pope Benedict XVI voiced support Wednesday for political actions around the world aimed at eliminating the death penalty, reflecting his stance as an opponent of capital punishment.

He made the comments during his weekly public audience to participants at a meeting being promoted by the Catholic Sant’Egidio Community on the theme “No Justice without Life.*”

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/pope-seeks-end-death-penalty-15056658#.TteRv9U7Isk
Click to expand...
I wish he’d focus on abortion. It is the most morally bankrupt issue of our time.
 
Joe_5859 said:
Yeah, I don’t quite buy the “deterrent” argument in favor of the death penalty. If that was the primary goal, why not go back to crucifixion or quartering? That would seem to be a bigger deterrent.
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“I personally am opposed to the death penalty,” said H. Naci Mocan, an economist at Louisiana State University and an author of a study finding that each execution saves five lives. “But my research shows that there is a deterrent effect.”

nytimes.com/2007/11/18/us/18deter.html?pagewanted=all
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
“I personally am opposed to the death penalty,” said H. Naci Mocan, an economist at Louisiana State University and an author of a study finding that each execution saves five lives. “But my research shows that there is a deterrent effect.”

nytimes.com/2007/11/18/us/18deter.html?pagewanted=all
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Well, I have some raw data to show you.

“States Without the Death Penalty Have Better Record on Homicide Rates - A new survey by the New York Times found that states without the death penalty have lower homicide rates than states with the death penalty. The Times reports that ten of the twelve states without the death penalty have homicide rates below the national average, whereas half of the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above. During the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48% - 101% higher than in states without the death penalty. “I think Michigan made a wise decision 150 years ago,” said the state’s governor, John Engler, a Republican, referring to the state’s abolition of the death penalty in 1846. “We’re pretty proud of the fact that we don’t have the death penalty.” (New York Times, 9/22/00)”

If you click on the link there are various graphs as well as the number of murders per state, showing that in states where there is the death penalty, murder rates are higher. So is it actually a deterrent?

deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
I wish he’d focus on abortion. It is the most morally bankrupt issue of our time.
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The Pope can focus on more than one thing at a time. 😉

Really, though, this is just a brief greeting given to a group who was meeting in Rome to talk specifically about that issue. If there were such a gathering on the topic of abortion, I’m sure he’d say something similar on that topic.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
I wish he’d focus on abortion. It is the most morally bankrupt issue of our time.
Click to expand...
It’s not either/or. Both are murder, plain and simple. Though I wish we’d hear more about the death penalty…it too is an evil issue. Capital punishment is racist, irrational, barbaric, expensive, discriminates against the poor, and places the U.S. on par with countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran–not exactly good company.
 
TEPO said:
"*Pope Benedict XVI voiced support Wednesday for political actions around the world aimed at eliminating the death penalty, reflecting his stance as an opponent of capital punishment.

He made the comments during his weekly public audience to participants at a meeting being promoted by the Catholic Sant’Egidio Community on the theme “No Justice without Life.*”

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/pope-seeks-end-death-penalty-15056658#.TteRv9U7Isk
Click to expand...
In Israel, although the death penalty is on the books, it is very rarely applied. This limited use is in keeping with Torah and Talmud Law, which states that the administration of the death penalty requires two upstanding eyewitnesses to the crime as well as the perpetrator’s forewarning that they are committing a criminal act. The purpose of the death penalty is not so much deterrence as it is the restoration of a measure of justice to the injured party. It also begins the process of atonement for the criminal so that their penance in Purgatory might be somewhat lessened.
 
Wackotrad said:
It’s not either/or. Both are murder, plain and simple. Though I wish we’d hear more about the death penalty…it too is an evil issue. Capital punishment is racist, irrational, barbaric, expensive, discriminates against the poor, and places the U.S. on par with countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran–not exactly good company.
Click to expand...
👍

I feel that the Vatican has been loathe to really push forward the idea of the death penalty being wrong for political reasons, as some Catholics are able to support it without going against the Catechism.n
 
Whether the death penalty is effective or ineffective at deterring murder is completely beside the point, just as are arguments economic supporting abortion. The Church has a consistent pro-life stance.

The end does not justify the means.
 
LemonAndLime said:
Well, I have some raw data to show you.

“States Without the Death Penalty Have Better Record on Homicide Rates - A new survey by the New York Times found that states without the death penalty have lower homicide rates than states with the death penalty. The Times reports that ten of the twelve states without the death penalty have homicide rates below the national average, whereas half of the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above. During the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48% - 101% higher than in states without the death penalty. “I think Michigan made a wise decision 150 years ago,” said the state’s governor, John Engler, a Republican, referring to the state’s abolition of the death penalty in 1846. “We’re pretty proud of the fact that we don’t have the death penalty.” (New York Times, 9/22/00)”

If you click on the link there are various graphs as well as the number of murders per state, showing that in states where there is the death penalty, murder rates are higher. So is it actually a deterrent?

deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates
Click to expand...
Correlation does not equal causation.
 
WOW! Waiting on our resident Death Penalty expert(s) to comment. . . ;)🙂
 
SamTheNewfie said:
Correlation does not equal causation.
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That’s an awesome phrase, but its clear that murder rates are higher in states with the death penalty than those who don’t have it. So it’s a very reasonable thing to say that it doesn’t work as a deterrent, because if it was a deterrent, murder rates would be lower in states with the death penalty, not higher - so clearly it doesn’t work.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
I wish he’d focus on abortion. It is the most morally bankrupt issue of our time.
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Yes, I bet many folks wish Bishops would only speak on abortion and gay marriage pretty exclusively, but the Holy Father and Bishops have other conserns as well. 🙂
 
I’d imagine the NAACP has a bit to say about the Death Penalty also. And rightfully so.

Peace
 
Wackotrad said:
It’s not either/or. Both are murder, plain and simple. Though I wish we’d hear more about the death penalty…it too is an evil issue. Capital punishment is racist, irrational, barbaric, expensive, discriminates against the poor, and places the U.S. on par with countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran–not exactly good company.
Click to expand...
The Church has not defined capital punishment as murder. Until they do, I regard all reference as such to be mere polemic arguementation without basis.
 
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