Pope set to bring back Latin Mass that divided the Church

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As a very liberal induvidual, I’ve always found the latin mass to be interesting and spiritual. I never understood why the Church would try and restrict it’s celebration for those who want to experience it (and preside over it). I’m all for the opening of latin masses for those who want it. This, in my opinion, is a step in the right direction.
 
Perhaps I just haven’t learned enough about Catholicism yet, but I fail to see the primary appeal of the latin mass, albeit I’ve never experienced one. Why would someone want to hear the mass in latin when I’m assuming they do not speak or understand it? Is the homily given in latin also? I just fail to see the big deal. That would be a tremendous communication barrier. Am I missing something?
 
brotherhrolf said:
Only if we revert to the Tridentine Mass that I grew up with. A parish would also have the option of saying the NO in Latin. EWTN does this already. I think it is a matter of heritage not division.
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Thanks for making that point. You can go to a Latin Mass that isn’t Tridentine - in fact, if you go to one of the basilicas in Rome, you will celebrate the “new” mass in Latin (except for the homily, which is in Italian, the local language).

Personally, I am looking forward to wider availability of the Tridentine mass and wider use of Latin generally, the latter of which seems to be happening more & more (around here, the Agnus Dei & Sanctus is actually becoming quite common). It’s high time we reclaimed our traditions and restored some dignity to celebrating Mass.
 
If the Mass of St Pius V was good for the Little Flower it’s good enough for all of us.

If the rumors are true I say: Deo gratias.
 
KathleenElsie said:
We have asked our Bishop here for an Indult. He has steadfastly refused. I can honestly see him go so far as to forbid it.

Please pray for a softening of his heart.
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Kathleen, you must be in the Greensburg Diocese. I am also in that diocese. I have travelled to Pittsburgh several times to attend the Indult mass at St. Boniface. We do need to pray for a softening of our Bishop’s heart.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I am comfortable with the Novus Ordo. But I am also comfortable with the Tridentine Mass.
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Me, too. One can go to vernacular or Latin NO Masses as well as Tridentine Rite Masses here in Little Rock. Interestingly, I find that I now prefer Latin NO to Tridentine Rite after years of attending both rites. I prefer the increased participation of the congregation.

The important thing, however, is that all should be available.

BTW, I don’t see B16 as starting to cater to any particular faction in the Church, liberal, conservative, or traditionalist. I think he simply wants everything to be available to all.
 
Richardols said:
BTW, I don’t see B16 as starting to cater to any particular faction in the Church, liberal, conservative, or traditionalist. I think he simply wants everything to be available to all.
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Which leads me to think that he’s not as orthodoxed as many would like to believe.

I have heard before his election to Pope, that he was a liberal, before JPII’s election.

JPII had the habit of appointing people who were ideologically opposite to himself, in order to keep a check on his own way of thinking. Real humility here.

When JPII asked Cardinal Ratzinger to head the Congregation of Doctrine and Faith, Ratzinger was surprised, but also awed. In fact, he admired JPII so much on this, that he transformed and tried to be more orthodoxed.

However, as so often happens, when you try to be something that you misjudged in the begning, rather than yourself, you’re going to do a bad job at it.

Much like George Bush trying to be a conservative. He’s failed miserably at it.
 
No, Benedict is orthodox…

But he certainly isn’t conservative! At least not by traditional standards. The mere fact that he supports the new mass, ecumenism, and democracy makes him, in the classical sense, a liberal.

Of course, “conservative” is often used as a relative term just meaning wanting to keep the status quo…so someone who would be considered a “liberal” 50 years ago may be a “conservative” today because they got all the changes they wanted…and a “conservative” from 50 years ago would be a “reactionary” today…

But in the classic sense, a liberal is a supporter of the ideals of the french revolution, and a conservative supports the ancien regime…

In this sense, I think I’d call Benedict a moderate…I don’t think he is a monarchist…but at the same time, he is not a radical libertine.
 
sneakers said:
Kathleen, you must be in the Greensburg Diocese. I am also in that diocese. I have traveled to Pittsburgh several times to attend the Indult mass at St. Boniface. We do need to pray for a softening of our Bishop’s heart.
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Yep Greensburg. We go to Allegheny for most things traditional. Our home school contacts are from Ally.
 
The mere fact that he supports the new mass, ecumenism, and democracy makes him, in the classical sense, a liberal.
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i don’t think this is accurate. there are plenty of quotes from ratzinger being critical of the new mass, ecumenism, and democracy. he rejects the hermeneutic of discontinuity in the new mass and ecumenism. the church doesn’t advocate one political system over another, rather it advocates the dignity of the person.
 
MichaelTDoyle said:
I attend NO and it is dignified. Dignity is in the heart.
peace
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I agree! I attended a Mass at the cathedral in Toledo, Ohio for the neophyte (new) Catholics. My stepson had just finished rcia. The Mass was in english, said by the Bishop. I have never been to a more beautiful, uplifting and holy Mass in my 65 years, and that includes all the pre vatican 2 latin Masses. The Mass couldn’t have been more holy and beautiful if it had been said in latin. I think the lack of reverance at Mass is as much due to the modern day culture, than anything else. I am tired of hearing “my Mass is holier than your Mass”, and "my parish is better than your parish, because we have the tlm. I also served Mass (TLM) for many years, and it was beautiful, especially at High Mass, but our priest used to joke that we rang the bell at consecration to wake up some of the people. Yes, there are a lot of abuses going on, but who’s to say they wouldn’t continue in a Latin Mass? There are a lot of Catholics and clergy that just don’t care anymore. Sad to say, we aren’t in the fifties anymore. God bless all!
 
jimmy said:
So is the teen mass dignified because dignity is in the heart?
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The dignity and reverence for God in the heart is reflected in the exterior person, not in which legitimate Mass one participates.

peace
 
LittleRose said:
This is ridiculously alarmist. He is just extending an indult already issued by Pope John Paul II. Tridentine masses performed under indult have already been happening for years, and are old news, and it’s not like anyone’s throwing the Novus Ordo out of the window.

Media. Sheesh.
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This is true. However, from a different angle, I see in the past years that Latin is making a comeback in secondary schools. This is a good development if for no other reason than the discipline study of Latin brings and the fact that so many erudite English words have a Latin base. The language of the Tridentine Mass is simple Church Latin that can easily be picked up by anyone with a modicum of interest. Hearing “Dominus vobiscum” and responding “et tecum” are quicky acquired. Some of the prayers are a little longer, but aren’t linguist “rocket science.”
 
I feel that the Novus Ordo Mass is not good for the church. It should be done away with.

Force the Bishops to do it, the Pope can do that.

The Latin Mass was never done away with, but was discouraged.

There should be some backbone, stand up and say no more.

But you know all these parishes spent good money, renovated all these churches. So there’s going to be opposition.

It should be admitted that the Novus Ordo was a mistake.
 
eileenmm said:
I feel that the Novus Ordo Mass is not good for the church. It should be done away with…
There should be some backbone, stand up and say no more…It should be admitted that the Novus Ordo was a mistake.
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I do not think the pope or the curia agree with you. It is not a lack of badkbone. On the “Ask a Bishop” program this summer on CALive, the bishop said that while he worked toward greater use of the TLM, that the wish by some that the TLM would be the only Mass was not going to ever happen. He said that the Mass changes of Vatican II, while resulting in some abuse, addressed real problems that existed at the time. He siad that despite the problems, the church would have been far worse off if no action had been taken.
 
I’m not sure what drums you mention. If it does not violate liturgical rules and is done with dignity and reverance and awe and worship toward the Eucharist, I would hope there would not be a problem. I assume the Mass would have eternal and temporal aspects and the temporal aspects could be adopted to assist the particular cultures in connecting with the heart to increase dignity and respect for the solemnity of the re-presentation of the Sacrifice on Calvary.
 
Force the Bishops to do it, the Pope can do that.
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Technically, sure. But on a practical level…not really. The bishops are bad, rebellious little boys in general and listen to the Pope inasmuch as it suits their local political agenda.

They’d probably stall and shuffle their feet until this Pope died and wait for a Pope who didn’t require the Tridentine.

But I agree, the Novus Ordo is like the New Coke…it wasn’t terrible, but it was a bad idea, a mistake…why change Coke Classic? It was already almost perfect…
 
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