Pope Softens Remarks on Conversion of Natives

[Ahimsa]

ROME, May 23 — Pope Benedict XVI tried today to quell anger in South America over his recent comments on the conversion of native populations there, acknowledging today that “unjustifiable crimes” were committed in the European conquest of the continent five centuries ago.

Speaking in Italian to a weekly audience here, the pope said that it was “not possible to forget the suffering and the injustices inflicted by colonizers against the indigenous population, whose fundamental human rights were often trampled.”

In a speech in Brazil last week, the pope sparked controversy by saying that native populations had been “silently longing” for the Christian faith brought to South America by colonizers.

 

[Genesis315]

This is true. Pope Paul III called people who committed such injustices satellites of Satan. Sublimus Dei . That doesn’t negate the good work of spreading the Gospel by the majority of missionaries. Such saints like St. Rose of Lima stand out. The fact remains that the Gospel ended the native’ attrocities and brought them and even better good–eternal salvation–something for which their hearts longed.

 

[Fidelis]

Typical NY Times inaccurate headline. As it said in the last line of the article, the Pope merely clarified his earlier comments which, though incomplete, were the truth. Glad he had the chance to make the clarification.

 

[Chris_Jacobsen]

Let’s compare how the Indians of Central and South America were were treated under the Spanish and Portugese and how the Indians of North America were treated under the English and Americans.

In Central and South America, under Catholics, the Indian cultures are still intact. In North America, under Protestants, the Indian cultures have been destroyed.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

In North America, under Protestants, the Indian cultures have been destroyed.

Residential schools?

 

[Br_Joshua_Seidl]

The speech in question was written by the Hosting Committee in Brazil. This is common to do - and then send the speech to Rome before the actual papal visit is made.

Brazil is undergoing an upheaval ever since the assasination of a Religious Sister (1 or 2 years ago). The Sister is USA born, but obtained Brazilian citizenship and frequently has been asked to represent Indigenous concerns to the State and Church. It was common for Brazilian Ranchers to kill or hire people to kill Indigenous Speakers. The Sister was killed in this way. Within a couple days the Indigenous Population shut down Brazil blocking roads and other trasportation. The government had to reform and begin to make good on treaty promises.

Brazil’s Non-Indigenous minority ruled the Native majorityin an aparthied manner.

Many questions regarding the Pope’s brief statements have come up. Most of those questioning do so with great respect of the Pontiff. The remarks were way to brief for such sensitive areas. It is very easy to see how it can be taken the wrong way.

It will take additional study to find out, not just from the POpe, but most importantly from the Brazilian Bishops about who wrote the speech and what was thier intent. This is a very complex issue and cannot possibly be fully understood in such a short time.

My personal preferences would have been for the Pope not to even mention the Native concerns and the Church, unless it could be in a different speech. That is how Pope John Paul II addressed Native/Church concerns.

 

[Teflon93]

The speech in question was written by the Hosting Committee in Brazil. This is common to do - and then send the speech to Rome before the actual papal visit is made.

Brazil is undergoing an upheaval ever since the assasination of a Religious Sister (1 or 2 years ago). The Sister is USA born, but obtained Brazilian citizenship and frequently has been asked to represent Indigenous concerns to the State and Church. It was common for Brazilian Ranchers to kill or hire people to kill Indigenous Speakers. The Sister was killed in this way. Within a couple days the Indigenous Population shut down Brazil blocking roads and other trasportation. The government had to reform and begin to make good on treaty promises.

Brazil’s Non-Indigenous minority ruled the Native majorityin an aparthied manner.

Many questions regarding the Pope’s brief statements have come up. Most of those questioning do so with great respect of the Pontiff. The remarks were way to brief for such sensitive areas. It is very easy to see how it can be taken the wrong way.

It will take additional study to find out, not just from the POpe, but most importantly from the Brazilian Bishops about who wrote the speech and what was thier intent. This is a very complex issue and cannot possibly be fully understood in such a short time.

My personal preferences would have been for the Pope not to even mention the Native concerns and the Church, unless it could be in a different speech. That is how Pope John Paul II addressed Native/Church concerns.

Political Correctness is always and everywhere the enemy of Truth, and I wish Pope Benedict XVI would simply continue to speak the truth without apology.

The fetishizing of people living in Stone Age squalor by those wealthy enough to harbor such sentiments has helped to retard progress in the Third World. Brazil of course still has a huge problem with poverty, but the Catholic Church has been an enormous force for good and for progress there as elsewhere.

It is not necessary to kowtow to those who, well-meaning or not, would consign the miserable millions to further misery. The conquistadors are dead. There is no use blaming the dead for the misery of the living, as it is not the conquistadors who today oppress them but living, breathing men smart enough to demagogue their concerns so long as it keeps them in power.

My deacon is from Nicaragua and I was quite stunned by how passionately he turned on someone who in an effort to be politically correct essentially absolved the Sandinistas for the misery they wrought which forced he and others to come to America in the first place.

In short, while it is true that my Portuguese ancestors did many evil deeds in Brazil, it is also true that the Catholic Church has worked tirelessly to make lives better for Brazilians, particularly the poor. It would be a far better thing if people would put their noses to the grindstone to build a better life than to put them out of joint at a papal visit.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Let’s compare how the Indians of Central and South America were were treated under the Spanish and Portugese and how the Indians of North America were treated under the English and Americans.

In Central and South America, under Catholics, the Indian cultures are still intact. In North America, under Protestants, the Indian cultures have been destroyed.

Let’s see what Reformation influence achieved in America.

The key element to understanding the radical Protestantism of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries is… the millenium… John Calvin’s doctrine of election made it possible to rethink the millenium in terms of physical reality. Now that one had living saints walking around on the earth, that is, members of the Calvinist church, one now had candidates for the one thousand year rule of saints.

Translating the rule of saints into a physical reality meant reorganizing the church into a political authority, which is one of the fundamental aspects of Calvinism… The millenarianism of the Protestant settlers of America had two other crucial aspects: the Ordeal and the final battle between good and evil…

Some Protestants believed that the conflict between Natives and Europeans would be a spiritual conflict and began to actively proseletyze Native societies. This proseletyzation, done in the best intents, seriously disrupted Native American society. Not fully welcome in their own societies, and almost completely unwelcome in European-American society, the converts found themselves between two worlds.

Those, however, who believed that the final battle would be a physical battle began a pattern of violence against the Native Americans… Native Americans… were reconfigured in the American imagination as instruments of evil.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Teflon93:

My deacon is from Nicaragua and I was quite stunned by how passionately he turned on someone who in an effort to be politically correct essentially absolved the Sandinistas for the misery they wrought which forced he and others to come to America in the first place.

Teflon93:

It would be a far better thing if people would put their noses to the grindstone to build a better life than to put them out of joint at a papal visit.

B16 is not a stupid man. I am coming to the conclusion that these so-called controversial statements of his are actually meant to provoke folks to think seriously about the issues.

Having said that, I do believe that B 16’s main vision is for the re-evangelization of Europe. In the Americas, we are going to have to stop standing in the vineyard and start working in the vineyard.

 

[Br_Joshua_Seidl]

Let’s see what Reformation influence achieved in America.

Thank you. This is a very multi-facetted ordeal. There were outstanidng Catholic missioner, some conaonized now. Most of the missioners, however, were of the same mindset as Protestants to desimate Native culture as inheritly evil. This was not the offical stand from Rome, but from local Church/National or Colonial interests. (Colonist would not think of finacialy supporting a Missionary who would tell the colonist they are wrong).

I endorsed a book on St. Katherin Drexel by Fr. Daniel Shefferty (sp?). I find it a good book about her. Even St. Katherin had some strong anti-Native attitude when she started out in missionary work. Her motivating purpose towards Natives was to make them obey the government, (that’s a quote from her own hand writting). Not a very spiritual reason. I do not know why a newly conquered nation would want to obey those that came to tear them apart.

St. Katherin did come around to more spiritual motives as she got to know Native people up close and personal. My endorcement is on the outside back cover – so I am certainly am not against St. Katherin. This just points out the difficulties we inherit from the social environment around us. Saintly living is possible, even with some less than saintly reasons to start.