Pope tells a gay man 'God made you like this'

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People confuse God’s Permissive Will with God’s Ordained (aka Positive) Will.
 
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Of course the media is going to report that the Catholic Church now accepts homosexuality as normal. The media lives to pervert the Pope’s words. My concern is that the Pope might be saying that people are born gay, which would feed into those who want people to believe that homosexuality is perfectly normal and not disordered.

If the Pope did make this comment, it is very dangerous not to clarify what he meant and not to reinforce Church teaching.
 
I don’t know a lot about this case, but I’m inclined to think that this poor man’s homosexuality is linked to the homo-pedo abuse that he suffered.
I personally do not believe that God created him a natural sodomist. A sick and fallen world did.
 
I_trust said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
God created that man, sin and all.
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This is an unclear statement.
Are you asserting that God created sin?
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It’s not unclear if you read what else I wrote. That man is Gods beloved child, no caveats. God created him, and the things about him that are abnormal are part of being created in a sinful world. God was fully aware of our fallen state and He wanted to create this man just like He wanted to create the rest of us.

All the posturing about God not creating sin so He can’t possibly have wanted this man the way he was is just an insidious way to deny Juan’s humanity. God doesn’t want sin but He still creates knowing full well that is the canvas He is has agreed to be bound to.

God created Juan in a fallen world. That meant sin impacted his creation. God knows what creating people in a fallen world does and He does it anyway. That doesn’t make him the author of sin but the author and decision maker on all life.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
It’s not unclear if you read what else I wrote. That man is Gods beloved child, no caveats. God created him, and the things about him that are abnormal are part of being created in a sinful world. God was fully aware of our fallen state and He wanted to create this man just like He wanted to create the rest of us.

All the posturing about God not creating sin so He can’t possibly have wanted this man the way he was is just an insidious way to deny Juan’s humanity. God doesn’t want sin but He still creates knowing full well that is the canvas He is has agreed to be bound to.

God created Juan in a fallen world. That meant sin impacted his creation. God knows what creating people in a fallen world does and He does it anyway. That doesn’t make him the author of sin but the author and decision maker on all life.
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This may be the most thoughtfully written response to this topic i’ve read. It should be distributed to media outlets. Bravo!
 
One could argue the Holy Father can’t respond to every misrepresentation. And is this a worldwide story or just in certain countries, like the US. But, I tend to agree. It would be best if the Vatican clarified Catholic teaching at these moments. Of course a clarification could and probably would be ignored by the mainstream media.
 
Can I offer my two cents?

God made Juan, fully aware that he was making Juan in a fallen world.

Here’s a scenario that MAY, I said MAY be possible, not IS, MAY… have a read:
  • God made Juan in his mothers womb fully aware that all the estrogen floating around in our waterways, and all the chemicals floating around in our environment, and all the hormones in our food, and all the radiation floating around in our environment would affect him in the womb, coupled with sexual abuse he would later face, would make him a gay man. Is this disordered? Yes. Does this make Juan a pervert? NO. Does this make Juan a monster? NO. Does this make Juan a sinner? Yes, like the rest of us. Like you. Like me. A sinner from the moment of conception. Does this make Juan mentally ill? YES. Does illness devaue the person in the eyes of God? NO. A thousand times NO! So in the end God allowed Juan to be gay, he was made gay because he was affected in womb or in his environment by the SIN of others, and his own original sin. God loves Juan, as much as he loves you. Juan has a cross to bear. Juan is free to chose God.
In closing remember this:

Have mercy on me, O God, in your faithful love, in your great tenderness wipe away my offences;

2 wash me clean from my guilt, purify me from my sin.

3 For I am well aware of my offences, my sin is constantly in mind.

4 Against you, you alone, I have sinned, I have done what you see to be wrong, that you may show your saving justice when you pass sentence, and your victory may appear when you give judgement,

5 remember, I was born guilty, a sinner from the moment of conception.

6 But you delight in sincerity of heart, and in secret you teach me wisdom.

7 Purify me with hyssop till I am clean, wash me till I am whiter than snow.

8 Let me hear the sound of joy and gladness, and the bones you have crushed will dance.

9 Turn away your face from my sins, and wipe away all my guilt.

10 God, create in me a clean heart, renew within me a resolute spirit,

11 do not thrust me away from your presence, do not take away from me your spirit of holiness.

12 Give me back the joy of your salvation, sustain in me a generous spirit.

13 I shall teach the wicked your paths, and sinners will return to you.

14 Deliver me from bloodshed, God, God of my salvation, and my tongue will acclaim your saving justice.

15 Lord, open my lips, and my mouth will speak out your praise.

16 Sacrifice gives you no pleasure, burnt offering you do not desire.

17 Sacrifice to God is a broken spirit, a broken, contrite heart you never scorn.

18 In your graciousness do good to Zion, rebuild the walls of Jerusalem.

19 Then you will delight in upright sacrifices,-burnt offerings and whole oblations – and young bulls will be offered on your altar.
 
Further…

Once man sinned originally and decided to rely on his own knowledge and not that of God, sin snowballed. Disease, mental or otherwise entered the world. The environment began to affect us. Our offspring were not immune to sin or disease or imperfection - NO FULLY HUMAN PERSON ONE IS SPARED (But Mary). Therefore negative genetic mutation became possible, and negative environmental factors became possible. Perhaps due to diet, or gluttony in diets, or affects from the suns radiation - whatever, we chose away from God.

Did God respect our freedom to sin? Yes.

But he didn’t abandon us.

He continues to knit us in our mothers womb, DEFECTS and all.

And loves us all the same.

It is humans who look upon illness and imperfection as fully negative things.

And by the way, God gives us all the means to stop disease and disorder.

But we choose war and greed instead.

God made Juan with a cross to bear.

One last thing: WE ARE OBSESSED WITH SEX. HUMANS ARE OBSSESSED with sex… due to original sin? sure… but also due to MARKETING COMPANIES SELLING US SEX 24 HOURS A DAY. the difference is now marketing companies sell sex to 10 year olds. that’s what’s changed in the last 30 years.

IF YOU DONT HAVE SEX YOU ARE WORTHLESS - this is what we are sold. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Sex DOES NOT DEFINE you. sorry for yelling 🙂
 
_Abyssinia said:
Dolan: Pope’s reported remarks to gay man, while ‘beautiful,’ could require clarification
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This headline makes it seem like Archbishop Dolan is questioning what the Pope said, not IF he said it or what he said.

Man I do not like clickbait headlines.
 
_Abyssinia said:
Isn’t homosexuality at odds with natural law. If it is, why would God make somebody homosexual?
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God only made him that way in the sense of permitting events with His providence, and providing grace so that the man could still be holy despite that orientation.
 
God made us, knowing everything about what would happen to us and what we would do and make of ourselves with what He gives us in terms of crosses and of grace.

He loves us as we are, but does He want us to remain as we are?

This is the central question for each of us. Does He not want us to become as holy as we can be despite whatever difficulties/defects/flaws we may have? Isn’t that why Christ suffered on the Cross for us?
 
JimG said:
then he is telling Juan Carlos that God affirms his homosexuality (God “loves you like that”).
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I’m willing to bet you a beer that what the Holy Father meant to say was “God loves you as you are”. Big difference.

I think this is a translation issue because in the French, which is similar to Spanish and Italian, we would say “Dieu t’aime comme ça”, colloquial shorthand for “Dieu t’aime comme tu es”. The shorthand works in French, Italian and Spanish but the nuance is lost in English.

It does not mean that God prefers him like that. It means that God loves all his creatures, and is willing to meet them where they are to help them grow in holiness.

Still, being homosexual is a state, not a sin (the acts are the sin) and as God loves all his creatures, God indeed does “love him like that”. Of course God wishes for everyone, even those “like that” and those not “like that” but “like this”, to grow in holiness.
 
Exactly. I think people get their feathers ruffled when they think that God could love a broken person.

It makes no sense for Him not to. God loves everyone of His creations. And made everyone.

God loves people equally, even when they sin. If he didn’t then i’d be in trouble.

Does he want them to repent? of course - THATS WHAT CONFESSION IS FOR! - but that doesn’t change the “level” of his love at all times.

Does any good parent love their children less if those children do terrible things? I doubt it.
 
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Of course God loves everyone just the way the are, which is not the same thing as saying God loves all our sins. One might say to the murderer, to the pederast, to the sexual assaulter, or even to the gossiper, God loves you just as you are; He made you this way. But that too would call for clarification.
 
JimG said:
Of course God loves everyone just the way the are, which is not the same thing as saying God loves all our sins. One might say to the murderer, to the pederast, to the sexual assaulter, or even to the gossiper, God loves you just as you are; He made you
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Your statement is only true if those individuals killed or sinned because of a mental or physical defect of the brain. And its not a sin to be Gay. It is sinful to engage in sexual relations outside of marriage -

The reason the world has such a hard time with this?

We have been brainwashed for centuries by marketing departments to think that SEX is ALL that matters. This is done to SELL SELL SELL…

Sex is satan’s favorite weapon.
 
I think Juan refers to himself as gay because he has same sex attraction. But he is not born with it. Remember he was abused by a priest. The disordered desire was the result of the abuse. Let us pray for him. And yes, I don’t expect everybody here to agree with me.
 
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