Why some people think that Pope Francis is some sort of liberal autocrat who is going to transform the Church into just another charitable NGO is beyond me. There’s really no basis for such an absurd idea.
I agree with devoutchristian. I think the above understanding of Pope Francis is very mistaken. I pray every day for the Church Militant, and I think/hope Pope Francis will be a great “soldier” in this way. He hasn’t given me any reason to doubt it yet.
I think you two people mean something different by “Church Militant”. No one can read Pope Francis and think he means we are supposed to stop proclaiming the truth and fighting for the truth. The thing is though, that the way we prroclaim and fight for the truth does not have to be in a harsh, agresive uncharitable way (which is what some people think of as “Church Militant”) Instead, one should proclaim the gospel and “fight” for the truth by strongly and completely proclaiming Church teachings through an attitude of humility and charity. I’m pretty sure that was the point of the above poster.
Sheesh…Not sure what prompted the tirade about liberalism. I’m not a liberal, nor do I think Francis will try to transform the Church in to an NGO. To use your own statement, there is no basis for such an absurd supposition.
That would be the same as Satan’s rejection of service. On Earth we are the Church Militant. Even the Pope cannot change that (though it is an astounding and incredible indictment against him to say that he does). That is God’s role for us.
Did you read the subsequent posts on this thread which explained how what was meant is not in any way shape or form contrary to Church teaching and is instead perfectly in conformity with Church teaching?
What has Voris to do with this?
Responding under the assumption that you don’t know that he runs Churchmilitant.tv… Which from my view seems to be the type of ‘soldier’ the Pope is saying not to be.
Oh so that’s what you meant, I didn’t get it. In any case, the Pope didn’t rebuke Voris or his style.
This will be the point we disagree on then.
We only disagree because you’re painting your own interpretation on the Pope. He didn’t rebuke Voris, that’s a fact.
And you have your particular interpretation of what the words of the Pope meant. You cannot claim your interpretation as fact and someone else’s as false without giving evidence for it. It is clear that the Pope did not rebuke Voris directly, whether or not the Pope’s words indirectly rebuked Voris is a matter of opinion. What we do know is that the Pope called for us to act with great humility and charity, so let us all turn to ourselves to discover our own defects in humility and charity that we may correct them rather than arguing about Voris and whether or not he has defects as well.
Or course he didn’t rebuke Voris…and I certainly didn’t say that he did. I said the Voris crowd implying the divisive style. Further, I explicitly stated that it was my view.
That’s fair and maybe…I have seen Michael speak live, have talked with him and have been in a number of debates with folks from his circle on a number of topics ranging from liturgy, to leadership from our Bishops to loving our enemies. i won’t go in to great detail, but the conversations ranged from outright condemnations of the Norvus Ordo, to personal attacks on Church leaders like Cardinal Dolan to heinous comments about Muslims. That is what I base my opinion on. I guess I’m not condemning the “style” as much as the underlying ethos which seems quite intolerant. Direct and frank is fine…divisive and hateful seems like it should be called out.
