Pope: The kingdom of God grows through meekness, not rigidity

[deaconjohnO]

And indeed we are. In my lifetime, above all since Vatican Council II, I saw the faith grow in a matter of a span of years by several hundred million, as the Church and her liturgy experienced reform and renewal under the guidance and operation of the Holy Spirit. Presently, the world’s Catholic population is over 1.2 billion.

It’s most dramatic growth, not surprisingly, has been in Africa. The African liturgies, fully inculturated, are at once so beautiful and so vibrant. Of all my decades as a priest, it is the African liturgies that I found the most remarkable and the most memorable – the wonderful fruit of the Liturgical Movement of my youngest days.

We are grateful to have a Pope as wonderful as Pope Francis.

Yes I agree. Its just unbelievable we have had such great popes in my lifetime. I hope Francis Carries on the torch set by the magnificent and Great Saint (may he be a doctor some day) John Paul II. The theology of the body is one of the greatest occurrences in the Chruch in the last 40 years in addition to Familiaris Consortio.

 

[irenaeus1]

And indeed we are. In my lifetime, above all since Vatican Council II, I saw the faith grow in a matter of a span of years by several hundred million, as the Church and her liturgy experienced reform and renewal under the guidance and operation of the Holy Spirit. Presently, the world’s Catholic population is over 1.2 billion.

It’s most dramatic growth, not surprisingly, has been in Africa. The African liturgies, fully inculturated, are at once so beautiful and so vibrant. Of all my decades as a priest, it is the African liturgies that I found the most remarkable and the most memorable – the wonderful fruit of the Liturgical Movement of my youngest days.

Unfortunately, with the mass exodus of Catholics (former Catholics who either have left the Church for evangelical churches or are not affiliated with any faith community at all) as well as the much lower percentage of the faithful Catholics actually attending Mass regularly, I’m not sure that the net effect is really an increase in the number of Catholic faithful. Yes, the Church in Africa is growing tremendously (praise God), but the Church in Europe is dying. In the U.S., the Catholic population is holding steady with a slight increase, but this is primarily due to immigration.

 

[irenaeus1]

I don’t think that Pope Francis was downplaying Church doctrines in referring to “rigidity.” Rigidity is inflexibility in personal interactions. It is used as an opposite of welcoming. Doctrine and dogma are adherence to truth. We don’t want to take away the idea that adhering to truth is a bad thing.

Well said. Obviously, the Holy Father cannot mean rigidity with regard to tenets of the faith and moral absolutes. Case in point, Pope Francis is quite ‘rigid’ in regards to not oppressing the poor and welcoming the migrant. He is quite ‘inflexible’ with regard to abortion and human trafficking. So, I believe you are correct in that a distinction needs to be made. Certainly, “a behavior in rigidity” needs to be guarded against lest we be found lacking in mercy and hypocritical.

 

[deaconjohnO]

I am wondering. Don Ruggero you indicated you didn’t live here in the U.S. If this is true how is the church doing in your country? and where you were a parish priest?

 

[gardenswithkids]

It is, indeed, an excellent homily, Jim. Thank you for posting it.

The imagery Pope Francis uses when he speaks I find especially to be splendidly chosen.
…

I’m glad the Holy Father’s words inspire and move people like you through his use of imagery. He often loses me and confuses me with some of his reported attempts to use of imagery.

Here’s an example from this article of something the pope said that confused me: “The flour ceases to be flour and becomes bread because it is docile to the strength of the yeast, and the yeast allows itself to be mixed in with the flour” and becomes bread for everyone"

Bread is more rigid than bread dough. Bread involves structure. Yeast produces CO2 from some of the carbohydrates in flour. Gluten and other things within the flour provide a structure that stretches to hold the CO2 bubbles produced by the yeast, causing the dough to rise. Yeast transforms flour and water into bread dough. Baking transforms dough into bread.

Jesus used metaphors such as yeast and mustard seeds and many other things to explain the kingdom of God. I like Jesus’ use of imagery; Jesus’ examples generally don’t confuse me. I’m familiar with seeds transforming into plants and with flour transforming into bread, and there is some structure and organization involved in those transformations.

The opening line in this article quoting the pope also confuses me: "God’s kingdom is not a well-organized structure … " Yes, the pope says more than that in that first sentence, but he starts out saying that, as if there is something* wrong *with well-organized structures and as if God’s kingdom is not well-organized.

I understand the imagery and the food science of bread making, but I don’t understand some things the pope is reported to have said or why he says some of them. (And while he is reported to be a scientist, he’s not a food scientist, and I don’t think he really understands bread making.)

 

[dans0622]

The machine translation leaves something to be desired but here is Google’s attempt at translating the Italian version (which is more or less “official” in that it is what is put into the L’Osservatore Romano) of the Pope’s meditation. It gives a little more context. Hopefully, the link will work for all those who wish to check it out:

translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fw2.vatican.va%2Fcontent%2Ffrancesco%2Fit%2Fcotidie%2F2016%2Fdocuments%2Fpapa-francesco-cotidie_20161025_la-farina-e-il-lievito.html&edit-text=

Dan

 

[KSU]

The machine translation leaves something to be desired but here is Google’s attempt at translating the Italian version (which is more or less “official” in that it is what is put into the L’Osservatore Romano) of the Pope’s meditation. It gives a little more context. Hopefully, the link will work for all those who wish to check it out:

translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fw2.vatican.va%2Fcontent%2Ffrancesco%2Fit%2Fcotidie%2F2016%2Fdocuments%2Fpapa-francesco-cotidie_20161025_la-farina-e-il-lievito.html&edit-text=

Dan

Once again, Dan, you have let the sunlight in and exposed the incompetent (I hope it’s just incompetent) English translation filter through which we receive the purported words of the Holy Father.

For years I have complained that the English-speaking world often is misled into believing that the Pope said and/or implied something that he did not. (It’s easy for us to be mislead because it’s true that Pope Francis provides his own counsel and loves to shake things up.)

He has gotten angry at the media for confusing people, but, for two reasons, he must take full responsibility. First, he knows the sensationalist nature of the media and has the authority to fix the problem overnight–the Vatican Press Office is the key to providing accurate English translations. Second, he admitted he shouldn’t speak off the cuff regarding explosive topics which the media will twist out of shape, but he just can’t resist. The first reason is the major culprit here.

Anyway, thank you, Dan, for that link.

 

[dans0622]

For comparison, I ran the meditation through the Bing machine.

microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fw2.vatican.va%2Fcontent%2Ffrancesco%2Fit%2Fcotidie%2F2016%2Fdocuments%2Fpapa-francesco-cotidie_20161025_la-farina-e-il-lievito.html

Dan

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The machine translation leaves something to be desired but here is Google’s attempt at translating the Italian version (which is more or less “official” in that it is what is put into the L’Osservatore Romano) of the Pope’s meditation. It gives a little more context. Hopefully, the link will work for all those who wish to check it out:

translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fw2.vatican.va%2Fcontent%2Ffrancesco%2Fit%2Fcotidie%2F2016%2Fdocuments%2Fpapa-francesco-cotidie_20161025_la-farina-e-il-lievito.html&edit-text=

Dan

So are you suggesting that CNS used google translation for the article they published ?

This isn’t a secular media translation BTW,.

Jim

 

[dans0622]

So are you suggesting that CNS used google translation for the article they published ?

This isn’t a secular media translation BTW,.

Jim

No, I’m not suggesting anything of the sort…only presenting more context since the article in the OP is quite truncated. I should, however, have simply gone to the Vatican radio site, which has a fuller summary of the meditation:

en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/10/25/pope_church_needs_docility_not_organization_charts/1267638

Dan

 

[KSU]

For comparison, I ran the meditation through the Bing machine.

microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fw2.vatican.va%2Fcontent%2Ffrancesco%2Fit%2Fcotidie%2F2016%2Fdocuments%2Fpapa-francesco-cotidie_20161025_la-farina-e-il-lievito.html

Dan

Thanks, again. It’s now clear that the Pope was not criticizing those who walk in the law, nor implying that adherence to the law causes “rigidity”. He simply is reminding us that our Faith must remain open to the Holy Spirit–in my own words, not neglect Wisdom and Reason as B XVI cautioned the whole world at Regensburg.

 

[KSU]

So are you suggesting that CNS used google translation for the article they published ?

This [CNS] isn’t a secular media translation BTW,.

Jim, I can’t speak for Dan, but the point of my posts is that the commercial media, including CNS, is not the official English translator of what the Pope says.

U.S. Catholics should not take CNS or any other commercial media as gospel just because it’s employed by the USCCB. In fact, earlier this year the USCCB took action to make that clear.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim, I can’t speak for Dan, but the point of my posts is that the commercial media, including CNS, is not the official English translator of what the Pope says.

U.S. Catholics should not take CNS or any other commercial media as gospel just because it’s employed by the USCCB. In fact, earlier this year the USCCB took action to make that clear.

Either way, we haven’t read from the actual text by Pope Francis which contradicts the CNS Article.

I have found CNS to be accurate, unlike the MSM.

Jim

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Either way, we haven’t read from the actual text by Pope Francis which contradicts the CNS Article.

I have found CNS to be accurate, unlike the MSM.

Jim

Personally, I prefer reading him in either Italian or in Spanish because I hear his voice as I read the text.

For those of us who are priests – and priests who have worked in pastoral settings above all – I don’t see how any of us would have any trouble understanding the Holy Father’s expressions “rigid” or “legalist”. We see far too many of these tragic people to not understand and immediately comprehend the reference…and its implications.

The homilies of His Holiness are exceptional and the constitute a daily gift.

Personally, I am always very pleased with CNS as a resource.

Of course, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops is just extraordinary in their publications, statements and in their work. The staff is exceptional and all Catholics in the United States should be so pleased to have such a gifted Conference, with all the resources at its disposal.

 

[KSU]

Either way, we haven’t read from the actual text by Pope Francis which contradicts the CNS Article.

I have found CNS to be accurate, unlike the MSM.

Jim

What actual text? Is there one? Dan has provided us with the translations provided by Vatican entities, but you prefer the “accuracy” of CNS’s truncated version. I don’t. To each his own.

As to CNS, are you aware of what the USCCB required of the organization last April?

 

[dans0622]

What actual text? Is there one? Dan has provided us with the translations provided by Vatican entities, but you prefer the “accuracy” of CNS’s truncated version. I don’t. To each his own.

As to CNS, are you aware of what the USCCB required of the organization last April?

Well, even what ends up in the *L’Osservatore Romano *is not a direct quote of the meditation. It is a summary with actual quotes here and there…*a la *Pope Paul VI’s famous homily in which he mentioned “the smoke of Satan.”

Dan

 

[KSU]

Well, even what ends up in the *L’Osservatore Romano *is not a direct quote of the meditation. It is a summary with actual quotes here and there…*a la *Pope Paul VI’s famous homily in which he mentioned “the smoke of Satan.”

Dan

Yes, that was my point to Jim, i.e., since there is no “actual text” of the Pope’s meditation, at least none that we know of, it is far more preferable to rely on the full translations provided by Vatican entities than CNS’s truncated version which can’t help but lose much in translation.

And it’s not fair to Pope Francis.