Pope to drop idea of limbo

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I seem to remember a couple of news articles posted on this issue before the Web site crashed, but I don’t see them now. My apologies if I missed them:
Pope to drop idea of limbo
By doing so, he’ll say unbaptized babies are not excluded from heaven.
The Catholic notion of “limbo” - that benign place where unbaptized babies and those born before the time of Jesus were once thought to spend eternity - appears headed for the dustbin of theology.
philly.com/mld/inquirer/15680906.htm

Article says the announcement is coming tomorrow.
 
I was listening to Relevant Radio on the way in and during the news brief the announcer said something about a committee (or something) the JPII started to look at the issue at that B16 was going to negate the idea of limbo.

I guess we’ll all have to wait and see.
 
Limbo is just a theory. Altho some of us were taught this theory as tho it was doctrine.
 
Limbo is just a theory. Altho some of us were taught this theory as tho it was doctrine.
Yes, I was taught that it was not doctrine. I just searched the Catechism for Limbo and came up with nothing, although this seems to be the closest:
1261
As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2.htm#art1
 
There is no official belief in Limbo. Never was. It was a common belief at one time (more common the middle ages then now), but has no evidence in Scripture or Tradition, and is merely a theological attempt to explain what happens to unabaptized babies and the righteous pagans.
 
I think I believed in Santa Claus longer than I bought into “limbo” 😛
 
I found the article very interesting and I am glad there is some discussion in this area. My wife and I ran into this issue when we had a still-birth last year. There was not any official liturgy that could be celebrated publicly for this sort of funeral. There are different Dioceses throughout the United States doing different types of services, but officially they are not called funeral masses because (as we were told) those are reserved for baptized and practicing catholics. Since the child was not baptized we could not have a funeral mass per se. We found a group of prayers and a very devout canon lawyer priest friend of ours who was able to say a private mass for our intentions, but that was really a liturgical work around.

Exploring this area of theology and trying to reconcile with the advances in modern technology, I believe is a step in the right direction. What I mean is, surely the innocent children aborted or otherwise who die in-utero are reserved a special place among the tiniest of angels in heaven! Although my wife carried the child for several weeks before birth and hence we could not baptize the infant within hours of death (Catholics do not baptize the dead), does not mean they are not in heaven. As many of the articles say, it is all God’s mercy regarding limbo and heaven. I for one would be glad to have the church make a statement about limbo or the entrance to heaven for children in these situations.

After all the old Baltimore Catechism taught that the only way to heaven was through baptism, but it went on to describe 3 forms of baptism: baptism by water, baptism by blood, baptism by desire. So surely aborted children would qualify as martyrs and baptism by blood. If not, take a deeper look into the human soul. If we know that each human creature, from the moment of conception, has a soul. And that God created that soul with the desire to never to be apart from himself. Our soul is our instinctive attraction to God and heaven. Therefore if the soul and that desire has not yet been tainted by the world, surely an infant (without actual sin - ignoring original sin for a moment) would desire God and therefore qualify under the baptism by desire as well.

Hey, I am rambling, but I again am very happy they are discussing the issues around this prospective anyway!
 
I don’t know if the Pope can “disavow” anything in this regard…because as the catechism says…the fate of the unbaptized is UNKNOWN to us. God probably uses extraordinary channels of grace to save them…we can have good hope in this…but it is simply not a matter of Public Revelation. We thus cannot presume it and so are still obliged to baptize urgently (the ordinary revealed means). Anything God does outside of this, he will reveal at the end of time…so we can have good hope in his mercy, but it certainly isnt a matter of faith.

I hope the Pope doesnt go too far and basically end up implying that there is some sort of Public Revelation on the subject…when there isn’t. We can have very good hope in God’s mercy…but what happens to them simply isn’t part of the Deposit of Faith. We can’t simply “discover” some new Revelation after 2000 years. We are not Mormons, and the Church has explicitly said in the past that whether God provides extraordinary grace at the moment of death (while we can have good hope) is explicitly NOT a subject of Divine Revelation. God didn’t tell us, so we can’t presume anything, and limbo remains a valid (though I think unlikely) theory.
 
Yes, I was taught that it was not doctrine. I just searched the Catechism for Limbo and came up with nothing, although this seems to be the closest:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2.htm#art1

I have an English Catechism from 1936 that teaches it, and a copy of the 1976 edition of “The Teaching of Christ”, which teaches it. And two editions of Denzinger’s Enchiridion - one a 1957 English translation of the 30th edition, the other the 1976 edition in Latin & Greek - that teach it. All these books have the Imprimatur. That’s not by any means a complete list of authorities which teach that Limbo is part of the Catholic Faith - even though it has never been defined.​

Pius VI rebuked the Jansenist Council of Pistoia of 1786 very severely, in his Bull “Auctorem fidei” of 1794, for calling Limbo a “Pelagian fable”. And some theologians have suggested it is de fide. The author of the article “Limbes” in the Dictionnaire de Theologie Catholique put some of his D.T.C. articles together in a book of which an English translation was published in 1929 - he states that the Fathers of Vatican I were preparing a definition of what amounts to Limbo; only the name “Limbo” was missing, as his quotation shows.

Padre Riccardo Lombardi, the author of a book on “The Salvation of the Unbeliever” (ET 1936), assumes the existence of Limbo throughout. As do many authors whom he quoted - he discusses the who shall go there in detail, as had the writers he quotes.

As to the value of theological opinions - they are not something to despise; the teaching authority of theologians, though it is not, & cannot be, the teaching authority of the bishops, is genuine for all that. “Oh, but X is only a theologian - what he says, doesn’t matter”, would have been incomprehensible a hundred years ago: so their judgements on the subject of (say) Limbo, though obviously not solemn & weighty enough to *define *anything (they have never had *that *weight, of course), have their own kind of authority & weight. Theological opinion is the raw matter of Catholic teaching, or used to be, so the opinion of theologians carries great weight - or used to; its value is that it testifies to the Catholic Faith, & is the opinion of those who have made sacred doctrine the study of their lives; something the bishops have not been able to do for themselves as once they would since the 12th century - they’ve had too much else to do as well. So the theological specialists entered the the scene.

I can’t be bothered to copy out all the quotations on the subject - I’m too lazy 🙂 But they exist. And there was a 1951 Allocution of Pius XII, and so on. Limbo has been taken for granted, defended, or discussed by Popes, bishops, & theologians for over 400 years - & that is a deliberate underestimate. By the standards set down in the 1998 Note accompanying Ad Tuendam Fidem, Limbo is part of the of the Faith. So don’t be taken in by those who mistake (or confuse) absence of explicit dogmatic definition of it, for absence of Catholic teaching of it. There is plenty. (Whether this will be reflected in the decision on the topic, is another matter entirely) ##
 
There is no official belief in Limbo. Never was. It was a common belief at one time (more common the middle ages then now), but has no evidence in Scripture or Tradition, and is merely a theological attempt to explain what happens to unabaptized babies and the righteous pagans.

Exactly the same could be - & was - said about the Immaculate Conception & Papal Infallibility; both of which were immensely controversial. Every dogma is unsupported, until one reads or interprets the sources in a way which allows one to see that dogma in them. It’s a matter of perspective.​

Tradition has to mention a idea for the first time at some time - before that time (call it T) the idea is unknown. So people living before time T will not find it in Tradition. The Assumption was absent from Scripture & Tradition - then it wasn’t. People living before T could have discounted it as a fable for exactly the reasons you mention. The Assumption is a “theological attempt” to account for the state of the BVM after death - there is no reason to believe it happened. and the same applies even more to the Immaculate Conception. That people thought them to be facts, proves exactly zero. A lot of people, millions, believe fervently that the Pope is Antichrist - that doesn’t make it true. ##
 
Gottle of Geer;:
Limbo is part of the of the Faith. So don’t be taken in by those who mistake (or confuse) absence of explicit dogmatic definition of it, for absence of Catholic teaching of it. There is plenty. (Whether this will be reflected in the decision on the topic, is another matter entirely) ##
Certainly it had been taught and was “part of the Faith,” but given the modern re-evaluation of the opinion on it, it may well be relegated to the dustbin just as belief in St. Christopher was.

I suppose it doesn’t hurt to believe in it.
 
OK, this report says no document is expected today, proving once again the difficulties in trying to hold the Vatican to a timeline. 🙂

newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-vatican-limbo,0,1423913.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

Note this quote:
“All of us have hope for the babies” that they will go to heaven, under the revised thinking on limbo, said the Rev. Luis Ladaria, a Jesuit who is secretary-general of the Vatican’s International Theological Commission.
 
They want to clarify what cannot be clarified. Yes, we should stress that we can have very good hope that God probably uses extraordinary means to bring them to heaven. But let us not ever PRESUME such a thing or make it an article of faith…because it simply has not been Publically Revealed.
 
I dont really like the idea.

I mean, I can see a certain poignance there…in accepting what God gave you and at the end of time saying “O, glorious God, what he did was wise. It’s better than hell, and I can still worship God naturally. It was all for the best!”

But I dont really like the idea…because why not give them the grace extraordinarily at the moment before death if they were innocents?

Still…I DONT believe it is a subject of public revelation. So one can “hope” that God will save them, or “speculate” limbo…but in the end…one cannot “believe” either with the certainty of faith…nor can the Church make a dogmatic declaration…simply because revelation only reveals Ordinary means, by the very nature and definition of what is “ordinary” (if such means were explicitly revealed, they would not be “extraordinary” and we could presume them…but we can’t, since they’re not revealed)
 
I threw my own theory out here on what I think happens. I titled the thread Theological Speculation, because that’s what the Limbo idea was. My theory is basically that no one has ever gotten a free ride by God, they have had to choose, so God will do the same with unborn infants and others. You can read the thread.

BTW, I told this idea to my pastor, he of course said it has no basis or refutation in scripture so it’s a plausible theory as well as others.

He said limbo is “out of favor” and has been, because of a different thought not mentioned here - God creates man to eventually be surrounded up into His presence and glory, so everyone created is created with that intent. This is why God will try and return those who die early (like unborn infants) to His presence.
 
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