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JimG
Guest
I don’t know if the problem is that they don’t know what they are saying in their vows, or if they don’t mean what they are saying, or if they really no longer believe Jesus’ teaching about the permanence of marriage. If people no longer believe in the permanence of marriage—till death—how much will pre-marital instruction be able to remedy that? If they no longer believe that it is humanly possible to make and keep a lifetime commitment, can instruction and marriage prep change that?
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commenter
Guest
This is very good in itself.
One problem in implementation is the fact that young adult Catholics often have so little doctrinal preparation in general due to weak catechesis, and the fact that most priests seem to avoid much doctrine in preaching. If they as individuals have so little understanding of the doctrinal context of the sacraments in general, or this sacrament in particular, they will not see the need for more extensive “preparation” at all.
Right now my diocese requires only the briefest marriage prep, maybe 3 hours in a group session, or, (!) online. The couple also meets briefly with the priest who will marry them. They offer more preparation if anyone wants it, but hardly anyone wants it.
This illustrates the dilemma we have created by the dumbing down doctrine over the past few decades. 2 generations have been taught that Baptism is “joining the community”; that Confession (I mean Reconciliation) is where you go when/if you feel you need reconciling; Communion is mostly for purpose of building community, it is an entitlement; Confirmation is where you feel your own gifts brought out. And Marriage is whatever the couple defines it to be, not some doctrinal template made by some institution or divinity.
If a couple has had good preparation overall in the past several years, and gets good doctrinal preaching in Church, they likely would benefit from - see the need for - the pope’s recommendations for preparation and followup now. But what about the other 90% of them? If people have no doctrinal context, or only understand doctrine in a relativistic, everyone-define-your-own way, they don’t benefit from the prep the pope is talking about.
If you have been trained by the culture, and by half your teachers in church, that everyone has to define their own sacramental meaning/spirituality/family for themselves, they won’t accept any of the pope’s suggestions. “Support” for them would sound like someone else telling them what their favorite dessert should be, or what the best song is.
One problem in implementation is the fact that young adult Catholics often have so little doctrinal preparation in general due to weak catechesis, and the fact that most priests seem to avoid much doctrine in preaching. If they as individuals have so little understanding of the doctrinal context of the sacraments in general, or this sacrament in particular, they will not see the need for more extensive “preparation” at all.
Right now my diocese requires only the briefest marriage prep, maybe 3 hours in a group session, or, (!) online. The couple also meets briefly with the priest who will marry them. They offer more preparation if anyone wants it, but hardly anyone wants it.
This illustrates the dilemma we have created by the dumbing down doctrine over the past few decades. 2 generations have been taught that Baptism is “joining the community”; that Confession (I mean Reconciliation) is where you go when/if you feel you need reconciling; Communion is mostly for purpose of building community, it is an entitlement; Confirmation is where you feel your own gifts brought out. And Marriage is whatever the couple defines it to be, not some doctrinal template made by some institution or divinity.
If a couple has had good preparation overall in the past several years, and gets good doctrinal preaching in Church, they likely would benefit from - see the need for - the pope’s recommendations for preparation and followup now. But what about the other 90% of them? If people have no doctrinal context, or only understand doctrine in a relativistic, everyone-define-your-own way, they don’t benefit from the prep the pope is talking about.
If you have been trained by the culture, and by half your teachers in church, that everyone has to define their own sacramental meaning/spirituality/family for themselves, they won’t accept any of the pope’s suggestions. “Support” for them would sound like someone else telling them what their favorite dessert should be, or what the best song is.
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edwest2
Guest
God bless Pope Francis.
Ed
Ed
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Phemie
Guest
This has been talked about for a few decades at least. Back in 2001 we were told by a priest at a school of theology that there was a move afoot to redo the Rite of Marriage including setting up something similar to the catechumenate, tentatively called the “order of the engaged”, to prepare couples for marriage.
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TCEL
Guest
Our mentor couple who did our inventory completely skipped over the family planning section, saying it wasn’t their business. I was taken aback. In hindsight, I should have mentioned that to the pastor.
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abucs
Guest
I think that is an interesting point. I guess the level of respect held by young people toward the church will help sway whether such programs are successful. Of course i hope for a successful program which deals with the real problems from a strong Catholic cultural perspective. Surely that is what we are supposed to be about and Francis seems to be building the infrastructure for the church to take a greater role in shaping culture.
I re-iterate, i hope it successfully transmits the Catholic culture and this helps with Catholic marriages.
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RPRPsych
Guest
Every time you think you have Pope Francis figured out, he pulls one on you. He’s like the Chrono Cross of pontiffs.
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J_Peterson
Guest
Our marriage prep was very through and very clear on what marriage means. I think it’s only in the Boston Diocese right now but I’m not sure. It was run by married couples talking about married life, they had a priest and a deacon come in and explain the sacraments and what marriage is, and we had a teaching mass where the priest taught us all the different parts of the mass. It was two full days. This was on top of three meetings with our priest who went over what the Catechism says about marriage, contraception/cohabitation, etc.
Transformed in Love Marriage Preparation Program
Obviously there should be a discernment process before even asking or accepting a marriage proposal but that’s not something you can force.
Transformed in Love Marriage Preparation Program
Obviously there should be a discernment process before even asking or accepting a marriage proposal but that’s not something you can force.
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Phemie
Guest
We got married in 1975 and we were living in different parts of the country so couldn’t be together for marriage prep. I know that my husband met several times with the Catholic Padre on the base where he was posted (he was baptized as an infant into the United Church of Canada). I have no idea what they discussed. I had no preparation at all.
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twf
Guest
We were married outside of the Church with a dispensation from canonical form. We were also separated by great distance during much of this period. I met with the priest in my home town (who also obtained the dispensation for me) a few times. My wife had one brief meeting with a priest in her home country (I was also present) for her to answer the various pre-marital screening questions from my home diocese under oath. We did an online course together and provided a PDF certificate to my home parish as “proof”.
Regarding the OP: I thank God that Pope Francis is seeking to address the root issue of this widespread problem.
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Thomas_White
Guest
I doubt it. It is not a difficult concept, permanence of marriage, and most likely they just don’t accept it.
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RCinMT
Guest
I think this is a very important path for him to follow and here’s why: the Pope may very realize that there is a real deficiency in a lot of marriage prep provided by the Church. So he’s on the one hand saying to currently divorced and remarried that they may not have fully grasped the sacrament in which they entered into in their first marriages. A natural corollary than is to try to ensure that doesn’t happen to future generations.
Just a thought…
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JimG
Guest
That’s what worries me. On the other hand, one has to admit that their elders have in many cases demonstrated to them by example the impermanence of marriage.
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Thomas_White
Guest
Yes, and it is a terrible mess. It is hardly limited to Catholics either, and I think that tells us something about society in general.
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