M
MarcoPolo
Guest
Perhaps it is a coincidence, but there was a Professor Gutting from Notre Dame whose opinion ran in the New York Times on January 23, calling Pope Francis to relax the Church’s teaching on abortion…
- Status
A
ARSpade
Guest
The Pope’s a smart and connected guy. I’d bet my hat that either he saw the article or had it brought to his attention.
The whole “It is my hope that the University of Notre Dame will continue to offer unambiguous testimony to this aspect of its foundational Catholic identity, especially in the face of efforts, from whatever quarter, to dilute that indispensable witness.” thing is actually pretty blunt when you connect it to the editorial. I assume by “whatever quarter” the Pope meant “clean up your house”.
It’s nicer, and kinda blunter, than just calling them out.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
This.
You never know what the Pope may have said to Father Jenkins privately though.
H
Havard
Guest
Gutting is an example of their application of “diversity of thought” that Notre Dame needs to reassess. I am all for professors lecturing on various schools of thought, and applying critical analysis to all subject matter, but the faculty of a Catholic institution should not be advocating any teaching contrary to the Magisterium.
A
AClaire11
Guest
As an ND grad, I would like to thank those who responded to this thread with charity. No institution is perfect. I have seen many rude comments about my Alma Mater on CAF and it is, frankly, hurtful. There are many true, faithful Catholics that both work at and attend ND. Please keep that in mind. Polite criticism is welcome and helpful. Responding to veiled criticism (so subtle it’s barely there) of another with the equivalent of “OH BURN” is not at all charitable or Christlike.
P
ProVobis
Guest
As if getting smacked by Alabama, Michigan, Oklahoma, and Stanford wasn’t bad enough.
M
McCall1981
Guest
As an ND football fan, I will say, ouch!
And they beat USC, thats the most important thing
P
ProVobis
Guest
The point is that without football, this school (as well as a few others) wouldn’t even be held to such high esteem.As an ND football fan, I will say, ouch!
And they beat USC, thats the most important thing
H
Havard
Guest
I don’t know what other schools you’re referring to, but with respect to Notre Dame, that’s simply ridiculous.
Even if you ignore U.S. News & World Reports’ high marks (I’m certainly not a fan of their ranking priorities) I don’t think the more business-minded publications like Bloomberg-BusinessWeek considers football when ranking the College of Business (undergraduate) #1 for four years in row. Or that the British-based The Economist thinks about that when ranking the Executive MBA program at #15 in the world, nor the The Wall Street Journal ranking the same program at #6 in the U.S.
P
ProVobis
Guest
So why do their alumni threaten to withdraw money every time they lose a game? Ask some of their former head coaches whose lives and pets have been threatened for a losing season. And what kind of classes are these athletes taking when they can afford to miss a lot of their classes? Oh, that’s right, they hire tutors to teach them quick nuclear physics at halftime.
Look at universities such as the University of Chicago or Johns Hopkins, for example, if you want a look at real universities where half of your students don’t go flying around the country on the weekends.
H
Havard
Guest
Do some alumni overreact? Sure, but not the majority, and not every loss. Obnoxious folks seem more prevalent because they’re loud.So why do their alumni threaten to withdraw money every time they lose a game? Ask some of their former head coaches whose lives and pets have been threatened for a losing season. And what kind of classes are these athletes taking when they can afford to miss a lot of their classes? Oh, that’s right, they hire tutors to teach them quick nuclear physics at halftime.
Look at universities such as the University of Chicago or Johns Hopkins, for example, if you want a look at real universities where half of your students don’t go flying around the country on the weekends.
As to the curriculum, Notre Dame has been #1 in NCAA student graduation rates 8 out of the last 9 years, and not because they have dumbed-down programs for athletes. Whatever you may think about “special jock treatment”, it doesn’t happen at ND. It’s more like what I imagine for athletes at the service academies. Many of my closest friends were on the team, and not one of them had tutors. I waited to eat dinner with them when they got out of practice late, and I roomed with them, so I knew how they spent their time. They just worked harder. In fact, a star player voluntarily tutored me in my theology classes. I won’t menton his name, but he recently retired from a successful NFL career, where for the majority of years he started at his position. Of course not all players make the NFL. Another of my friends has since graduated magna cum laude from his law school. I know, because I went to his graduation and saw the honor listed on the commencement program. Another has since gotten two MA degrees.
I actually considered walking on, but chose not to because I knew that I couldn’t handle the schedule and still achieve my goal of gaining admission to a good law school. So yes, I’m basically saying that several of my player-friends were probably smarter than I was.
M
McCall1981
Guest
Yes, to be fair to ND, they are better in this regard than 99% of other universities with major sports programs. The only schools that compete with them in this are Stanford, Vanderbilt, maybe one or two others. ND’s not perfect, but theyre far better than most.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Yes, but take away their football program and what do you have? Their new schedule reflects they’re after the big gates and TV revenues.* They practically beg to be in some bowl game every year as that’s a major financial support item for them and their expansion aspirations. Tuition only goes so far.
C
commenter
Guest
I am sure there are many faithful individuals working and learning there. No one is criticizing them. But at this college, and others, decision makers mostly pulled the institutional witness away from Christ, towards the secular world. The problem is not the handful of criticisms that are rude, but that the critical response to this problem has been so weak, both regarding ND and other “Catholic” institutions.
In my diocese, institutions that have abandoned Catholicism continue to get promoted as if they were still Catholic by the local diocese, alumni, and others. Parents and students continue to borrow heavily to access what they think will be a Catholic institution. There is almost a “conspiracy of silence”, that no clergy, no lay organizations. no faculty wants to be labelled as negative. So young people put confidence in an institution is not what it claims to be (even if many workers and students are faithful). Even a few more rude comments would be better than this.
A
AClaire11
Guest
I assure you, it was my experience that ND is very much a Christ-centered institution. The existence of a few loud-mouthed dissenters among the faculty has not changed this. It’s sad that those are the only stories that make the news. Most students never run into those professors during their four years.
H
Havard
Guest
Again, I’m really not sure what you’re talking about. Kelly has only had successful seasons so far, so he’s never needed to “beg”. But Charlie Weis declined bowl offers in 2009 when we were 6-6 because he didn’t feel that we deserved a bowl. Roughly half (60 out of the 120) Div-I teams participate in bowl games, so you kind of have to have a losing season not to get an offer.
H
Havard
Guest
That was my experience as well. I never came across any open dissenters.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Okay, you got an outstanding education and there are good people there. I get that. But isn’t it true that there is a declining number of Catholic teachers at that institution? How long can you keep calling it Catholic?
Reference: ndsmcobserver.com/2012/11/death-of-a-catholic-university/
C
commenter
Guest
I am not referring mostly to the faculty but to the administration. It may be that many of the faculty and students at ND, (and at many state universities), are practicing Catholics. What’s different now is the administration. Years ago ND would never have invited politicians who directly oppose the Catholic Faith. Today they do, even when their own bishop pleads with them not to do it. I am sure in many ways ND still respects their own bishop, and they respect the Catholic Faith. Even state universities sometimes do, to a lesser extent. But state universities are not “under” any bishop, and not “under” the Catholic Faith. The administration at Notre Dame used to be, but today is not. At one time Ex Corde Ecclesiae would have been endorsed immediately at ND. Today it doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in Hell of passing; so it’s not just a few dissenters.
But ND now is deeply influenced by secular higher education, by secular politicians, and secular media. I am aware that many of the dedicated Catholics who protested outside ND when the president came, were alumni. This is a credit to ND’s Catholicism of the past.
H
Havard
Guest
It’s not Ave Maria, but it’s not Georgetown either. If anything, it’s a battleground and I prefer not to declare defeat when there are clear signs of a Catholic identity.
- Status