Pope to Nuns: Don't Be Old Maids

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Pope Francis, I have to say, is really trying to lead by example. I loved Benedict, but he was too timid. Francis has the orthodoxy and the PR skills. And with this, I’m starting to see Francis has a lot of personality and is very relatable. He recently said that Mary is our example to not be “perpetual teenagers”.
Pope Benedict XVI was very bold and accomplished a lot in his relatively short run as our Pope. He stood up and held strong in the faith to a world that hated his guts. He was bold enough to get us to change the words in the English liturgy so that the words would better reflect Scripture and Tradition. He created a lot of cardinals and canonized a lot of saints. He wrote a lot as Pope and in private writings as Joseph Ratzinger. And he made trips to the Holy Land including going to Lebanon during a time of very high tensions and violence in the area. The world now loves our current Pope Francis, but I’m sure once they get to know him it will be like the short love affair they had with Pope John Paul II before the worldly turned on him after finding out that he would not compromise the faith. 🙂
 
Yep,we who attended Cathilic school,experienced at least one nun that was far from pleasant.However,I remember many more that really were very sweet. I think Pope Francis was speaking to those rogue nuns we all see andread about ,who are in direct defiance with Church Doctrine.You know,the ones who traded their habits for pantsuits in the 70’s and never looked back!:rolleyes:
Please don’t go there, I beg you. It is very misleading to many Catholics and non-Catholics alike. To mislead anyone is a grave sin against justice, charity and truth.

Habits have never been part of Church doctrine. The term did not even come into existence until the 1500s. If one pays close attention the term used was habit and not uniforms. The way that the term was used was to describe a habitual form of dress. It did not mean a uniform. For example, in a family as large as is our Franciscan family, we have habits, but we have never had a uniform. There are over 300 different Franciscan habits ranging from tunics with cowls, to blue jeans with a hooded shirt and a Tau for men. The there is the French Benedictine habit worn in brown by the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration to a simple brown skirt and white blouse worn at other Poor Clare houses. St. Francis and St. Clare never commanded a uniform. Each house was to decide what to wear according to time, climate, work, resources available and the taste of the religious who lived in that house. After the sisters or the friars vote on what they want to wear, the superior the executes the command by enforcing the regulation. Notice, it’s a regulation not a doctrine.

Just like Clare and Francis there were other founders who left the decision of a habit to their sons and daughters, some simply told them to wear whatever every other religious was wearing and others outright opposed habits; therefore, those religious have never worn one. In this diverse group we find St. Augustine, St. Vincent de Paul, St. Ignatius of Loyola, Bl. Mother Teresa of Calcutta (opposed habits for her brothers), St. Eugene de Mazenod, St. John Bosco, Bl. William Chaminade and Fr. Thomas Judge.

There were some founders who were very specific about the habit, such as St. Dominic, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Paul of the Cross, St. John de Matha, the Seven Holy Founders of the Servite Friars, St. Bruno, St. Robert, St. Jane Frances de Chantal and many others.

We must say it correctly. Religious garb is a habit. It is not a uniform, nor a doctrine.

Canon Law commands religious to wear a habit. However, the law cannot be applied to those who

a) belong to religious communities where the founder says differently (I’ll explain why)

and

b) belong to a religious community that has been given permission by the Holy See not to wear a habit.

Let’s go to (a). In law there is a point of antiquity. If something has been a law for more than 100 years, the Church leaves it alone. It applies the law only to that which is newer. In the case of the Jesuits who are 500 years old, the canon to wear a habit does not apply to them. They have never worn a habit in 500 years. They have always worn whatever is the custom for the clergy in their place of residence. In other words, you’re not supposed to be able to identify a Jesuit. He should blend in with non-religious clergy aka secular clergy.

Let’s go to (b) Bl. John Paul II gave permission to more than 500 communities of women to dispense with any form of habit, even though the founders had dictated a habit. The pope always trumps the founder.

Now let’s move to another error in your post. You say “rogue nuns”. Have you ever met a nun?

Most Catholics have never met a nun and most will never meet one either. Nuns do not mingle with the laity. They live in enclosures and only come out for business. The only nuns allowed to travel outside of the enclosure are Franciscans, because Clare did not make her nuns make a vow of enclosure. To do so would mean that they would have to depend on the friars to care for them. Clare was determined that no male would ever have authority over her nuns. To this day, the Poor Clares lord it over the friars, not the other way around. LOL. We don’t dare tell them what to do for fear that they’ll pray that a landslide will bury us alive. God listens to those women. You don’t play games with them.

Next, let’s address the pantsuits. I don’t like pantsuits on sisters either. But a suit of any kind does not a rogue make. I’ve worked alongside the Carmelite Sisters of Charity for several years. I have never met a more dedicated, more prayerful, more obedient group of women religious. Most them wear slacks. There is nothing rogue about them.

The women religious who have gone rogue, to use your term, are not nuns. They are sisters. They do not represent the whole population of sisters in the Catholic Church. In fact, the majority of sisters in the Catholic Church are outside of the USA.

The problem sisters in the Catholic Church are Americans. That should be no surprise to any of us. Americans have been a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church since Americanist Heresy of the 1890s. That Catholicism survived in this country is the greatest proof of the existence of God. :sad_yes:
 
Sounds like he was addressing the perception of the mean old battle ax nun. I guess you can say so long Sister Mary elephant. While that is a characterization, sadly it is somewhat based on sad reality and now we have a Pope that wants nuns to be models of love.
I had some experience with a mean nun some 15 years ago, a nun assigned to a parish committee I was on. I’m thinking that her meanness perhaps stemmed at least in part from a severe novitiate, which then became a “cycle of abuse” for her.

Of course, it is important for religious and all of us to go thru the trials and tribulations of life as something that serves to strengthen us in our faith and gentle us in our love and mercy. And in religious life, it is expected they will create penances for their novices to go thru.

There’s this difference between Christian (grace-filled) response to hardship v. natural human response. And it is very difficult to follow the former and avoid the lattter.

I wouldn’t be too critical, but in some way strive to help and encourage people to respond according to grace rather than according to nature.

One thing in Carmelite spirituality they emphasize is that we are not so much to take on extra self-inflicted penances, but rather respond in a Christian, grace-filled way to the “penances” God allows us to suffer in the rough and tumble of daily life, offering them up to God for His kingdom. Like “our neighbor (or spouse) is our hairshirt” 🙂 … and we are hairshirts for others (tho we should strive not to be).

Religious life in community is like stones in a tumbler – by being crashed and dashed against each other the rough edges are smoothed and we become beautiful gems.

What gain is there if we live only with saintly people who never cross us. It is so much better to endure problem people and their sometimes insulting and difficult demands on us with love and kindness. Return good for evil. No pain, no gain.
 
Please don’t go there, I beg you. It is very misleading to many Catholics and non-Catholics alike. To mislead anyone is a grave sin against justice, charity and truth.

Habits have never been part of Church doctrine. The term did not even come into existence until the 1500s. If one pays close attention the term used was habit and not uniforms. The way that the term was used was to describe a habitual form of dress. It did not mean a uniform. For example, in a family as large as is our Franciscan family, we have habits, but we have never had a uniform. There are over 300 different Franciscan habits ranging from tunics with cowls, to blue jeans with a hooded shirt and a Tau for men. The there is the French Benedictine habit worn in brown by the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration to a simple brown skirt and white blouse worn at other Poor Clare houses. St. Francis and St. Clare never commanded a uniform. Each house was to decide what to wear according to time, climate, work, resources available and the taste of the religious who lived in that house. After the sisters or the friars vote on what they want to wear, the superior the executes the command by enforcing the regulation. Notice, it’s a regulation not a doctrine.

Just like Clare and Francis there were other founders who left the decision of a habit to their sons and daughters, some simply told them to wear whatever every other religious was wearing and others outright opposed habits; therefore, those religious have never worn one. In this diverse group we find St. Augustine, St. Vincent de Paul, St. Ignatius of Loyola, Bl. Mother Teresa of Calcutta (opposed habits for her brothers), St. Eugene de Mazenod, St. John Bosco, Bl. William Chaminade and Fr. Thomas Judge.

There were some founders who were very specific about the habit, such as St. Dominic, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Paul of the Cross, St. John de Matha, the Seven Holy Founders of the Servite Friars, St. Bruno, St. Robert, St. Jane Frances de Chantal and many others.

We must say it correctly. Religious garb is a habit. It is not a uniform, nor a doctrine.

Canon Law commands religious to wear a habit. However, the law cannot be applied to those who

a) belong to religious communities where the founder says differently (I’ll explain why)

and

b) belong to a religious community that has been given permission by the Holy See not to wear a habit.

Let’s go to (a). In law there is a point of antiquity. If something has been a law for more than 100 years, the Church leaves it alone. It applies the law only to that which is newer. In the case of the Jesuits who are 500 years old, the canon to wear a habit does not apply to them. They have never worn a habit in 500 years. They have always worn whatever is the custom for the clergy in their place of residence. In other words, you’re not supposed to be able to identify a Jesuit. He should blend in with non-religious clergy aka secular clergy.

Let’s go to (b) Bl. John Paul II gave permission to more than 500 communities of women to dispense with any form of habit, even though the founders had dictated a habit. The pope always trumps the founder.

Now let’s move to another error in your post. You say “rogue nuns”. Have you ever met a nun?

Most Catholics have never met a nun and most will never meet one either. Nuns do not mingle with the laity. They live in enclosures and only come out for business. The only nuns allowed to travel outside of the enclosure are Franciscans, because Clare did not make her nuns make a vow of enclosure. To do so would mean that they would have to depend on the friars to care for them. Clare was determined that no male would ever have authority over her nuns. To this day, the Poor Clares lord it over the friars, not the other way around. LOL. We don’t dare tell them what to do for fear that they’ll pray that a landslide will bury us alive. God listens to those women. You don’t play games with them.

Next, let’s address the pantsuits. I don’t like pantsuits on sisters either. But a suit of any kind does not a rogue make. I’ve worked alongside the Carmelite Sisters of Charity for several years. I have never met a more dedicated, more prayerful, more obedient group of women religious. Most them wear slacks. There is nothing rogue about them.

The women religious who have gone rogue, to use your term, are not nuns. They are sisters. They do not represent the whole population of sisters in the Catholic Church. In fact, the majority of sisters in the Catholic Church are outside of the USA.

The problem sisters in the Catholic Church are Americans. That should be no surprise to any of us. Americans have been a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church since Americanist Heresy of the 1890s. That Catholicism survived in this country is the greatest proof of the existence of God. :sad_yes:
I stand corrected as it pertains to nuns vs sisters.admitedly, my remark was snarky and a little tongue in cheek.I was really focusing on the sisters who speak out on the talk show circuit,in direct defiance of Church doctrines.The ones who endorse gay marriage,abortion,etc.This in my opinion gives a distorted view of Catholic Religious,especially to the many disaffected Catholics and secular society.
 
What I love about the Sisters of the Apostles of Interior Life is they are pro family as opposed to so many women’s religious orders that say they are but then severely restrict family visits-e.g Dominican Sisters are typical family may visit 4 days-nothing in first year-no Cards or letters during Advent or Lent-very typical-and these are not the cloistered orders. many orders treat family like a nuisance and position themselves as Jesus when they quote come follow me. The Sister AVI have a Christ centered view that is more consistent with pro-life pr-family. Are there other orders like these out there?

Here’s what Sister of AVI say

*** The family we come from is very important to us. We are grateful to our parents for the gift of life and we honor and respect them, even if our vocation takes us away from a frequent interaction with them. We keep in touch with our parents and siblings and their families on a regular basis through phone calls, Skype, emails, and visits (also during the time of formation). We are attentive to the needs of each specific family and we discern with the superior how to make ourselves present to our family when special circumstances arise. Every year each of us AVI is granted a period of three weeks to spend with our family at home.***
There’s one order of sisters called the Apostles of the Interior Life whom I love. They give spiritual direction to younger people (like college-aged). They wear street clothes instead of habits (it is considered less intimidating), but they are, as far as I know, as orthodox as can be. I have a friend who wants to join them.
 
I wonder why Pope Francis chose the word old maid as a symbol of a nun or priest who is a careerist?

Technically, an old maid is a woman who did not get married. Not all of them are grasping, selfish career women or battle axes for that matter. They are individuals just like the rest of humanity.

Some of them, don’t even have successful careers, just jobs that provide enough to keep body and soul together. Why the negative connotation?

I personally know one woman who uses her training in pediatric neurology traveling the world caring for sick children whose families afford the steep medical bills. She is an old maid because she never married. Why does the Pope choose to castigate rebellious sisters by comparing them to old maids?
 
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