None of those thing are allowed by the Catholic Church though even though we do have some bad bishops at the moment. Pope Benedict will put a stop to it eventually, probably by replacing some bishops.No, in one case there was a bishop who was presiding.
And has any priest ever been laicised for celebrating a Mass of this type? Quite the contrary, they are rather usual. For example, on Chinese New Years, in the local Churches they have a Mass where Chinese dragons are parading to and fro during the Mass and children have been told that they will have “good luck” if they are able to touch a Chinese dragon during the Mass.
Do you have any Orthodox friends or acquaintances? I know an Orthodox student who was very much pro-Catholic until he started attending Masses on campus. He observed that the priest said it was the custom that everyone come up to receive at Communion time and he said that he was postively amazed at the type of Masses offered there, especially the "coming out " Masses where same sex couples embraced and kissed and who knows what happened at the after Mass parties and get togethers?bobzills please stop claiming that this Mass have any type of approval by the Church, just because a priests or even a bishop was presiding. The Church has very strict rule on how a mass must be accomplished in writing and any other why is illicit. See the link for the GIRM of the Mass.
http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/GIRM.pdf
You know these “coming out Masses” must be illicit and so are the liturgical abuses. You must also know that homosexuality is condemned outright by the Church.Do you have any Orthodox friends or acquaintances? I know an Orthodox student who was very much pro-Catholic until he started attending Masses on campus. He observed that the priest said it was the custom that everyone come up to receive at Communion time and he said that he was postively amazed at the type of Masses offered there, especially the "coming out " Masses where same sex couples embraced and kissed and who knows what happened at the after Mass parties and get togethers?
Take a look at the reverence at a few Orthodox Masses and compare that reverence with what is oftentimes observed at Roman Catholic Masses:
youtube.com/watch?v=zNp9uH1MBuA
youtube.com/watch?v=u7g3hUV0oR4
youtube.com/watch?v=Zh4CMalTNXA
youtube.com/watch?v=nLtBhEoJpD4
youtube.com/watch?v=L3X9qmEfAVg&feature=related
Here are some examples of Catholic Masses:
youtube.com/watch?v=x7KdQERbVkA&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=WadbbxPoBlk
youtube.com/watch?v=NsC4wRPybpA&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=mPgQIceN2KM&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=rh_nqtp3VrU
The topic is reunion with the Orthodox. But can you see here another possible reason why many of the Orthodox would be reluctant to unite with the Roman Catholic Church?
If what you say is true, then there is a lack of discipline in the Roman Catholic Church with even the Pope JPII celebrating Masses which have been questioned. And as you can see, one of the liturgies was at Cardinal Mahony’s conference.You know these “coming out Masses” must be illicit and so are the liturgical abuses. ]
True, but that is changing with Pope Benedict. Compare Masses said by JP2 with those by B16 and you’ll see a big difference.If what you say is true, then there is a lack of discipline in the Roman Catholic Church with even the Pope JPII celebrating Masses which have been questioned. And as you can see, one of the liturgies was at Cardinal Mahony’s conference.
I can understand that, I’m not disputing that the quality of the liturgy hasn’t plummeted since the reforms of Vatican 2, but those ones you showed were still abnormal.My Orthodox friend has said that his opinion of the Catholic Church has gone done considerably since he experience with the Catholic Masses at the university that he is attending.
The lever of education has also plummeted but the Church does not has a quasi-universal view of salvation, people should only go up for Communion if they are in a state of grace, fasted etc., unfortunately many of them do not know this.And to check out this concern about the custom of everyone going up to receive at Communion time, I attended a liturgy at a local Orthodox Church and before Communion time, the priest announced that Holy Communion was for those who had properly prepared for the reception. At Communion time, less than 40% of the people went up to receive. That compares with the local Catholic Church where more that 95% of everyone goe up to receive. So it has become the custom in Catholic Churches to support a quasi-universal view of salvation.
That is a question many people have been asking for years. The Masses are illicit however. See Redemptionis Sacramentum.I would question as to whether these Masses are illicit or not? Becasue if they were illicit, then why have not any of the priests celebrating them been thrown out of the Church?
Indeed, they are a stumbling block for most traditionally minded catholics also. The Pope is trying to put an end to it though, changing the altar arrangements, encouraging latin etc. and reviving the Tridenting Mass; and traditionalism is rising so as I said before by the time unification would happen it will probably be only Latin Mass anyway.Whether these type of things are illicit or not is beside the point. The fact is that they are occurring at Catholic Masses, and this can present a stumbling block for unification of the two Churches.
This is not what is recommended at my friend’s chapel. The priest there announces at each Mass that it is the custom for everyone to come up and receive.True,The lever of education has also plummeted but the Church does not has a quasi-universal view of salvation, people should only go up for Communion if they are in a state of grace, fasted etc., unfortunately many of them do not know this…
There is no proof that they are illicit. And in any case, it presents an obstacle for a Church with a reverent and licit liturgy and a centuries old licit discipline to be asked to join an undisciplined Church with wild liturgies which you yourself say are illicit.That is a question many people have been asking for years. The Masses are illicit however. .
This statement points out a big difference between Catholics and Orthodox and indeed, illustrates one possible obstacle toward reunion. From what you as a Catholic say, it is petty to be overly concerned about the liturgy, but from an Orthodox standpoint: “The sense of the sacred, the beauty and grandeur of the Orthodox Divine Liturgy make the presence of heaven on earth live and intensive. Orthodox Church art and music has a very functional role in the liturgical life and helps even the bodily senses to feel the spiritual grandeur of the Lord’s mysteries.”…you should be ashamed for being so petty!
That’s not the custom and the Curch teaches the opposite.This is not what is recommended at my friend’s chapel. The priest there announces at each Mass that it is the custom for everyone to come up and receive.
The documents from the Congregation for Divine Worship show it is illicit, as does the GIRM. They are not common though, dispite what you say.There is no proof that they are illicit. And in any case, it presents an obstacle for a Church with a reverent and licit liturgy and a centuries old licit discipline to be asked to join an undisciplined Church with wild liturgies which you yourself say are illicit.
And my point is that also the Eastern Orthodox see it as a “big issue” and not a petty one as someone here has implied?P.S. Catholics do see the liturgy as a big issue, just look at the catholic blogs.
So we all see liturgy as a “big issue”. Grand!And my point is that also the Eastern Orthodox see it as a “big issue” and not a petty one as someone here has implied?