Pope to the proud and powerful: Help the poor, or you’ll go to hell

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I especially like this part:

Francis wrote that there are some who “consider themselves rich, but they are actually the poorest of the poor” because they’re slaves of sin, using wealth and power not in service of God and others, “but to stifle within their hearts the profound sense that they, too, are only poor beggars.”
 
Seems like I’ve heard something like this before. ** “Then they themselves will also answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”** Yes, God bless Pope Francis for continuing to proclaim the whole of the Gospel message, both the things we like to hear and the things we might not want to hear.
 
I thought the Catholic Church couldn’t say who and who isn’t going to hell. But I guess that card only gets played when we’re talking about the fate of “good” non-believers…:rolleyes:
 
Jon_Mallory said:
I thought the Catholic Church couldn’t say who and who isn’t going to hell. But I guess that card only gets played when we’re talking about the fate of “good” non-believers…:rolleyes:
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I don’t think he mentioned any specific person, did he? It is true, only God can pass the particular judgment on a soul at their death and that judgment is not revealed until the General Judgment. But the Church can teach what can cause us to be damned and what can cause us to be saved. In fact, that’s the point of the Great Commission.
 
Jon_Mallory said:
I thought the Catholic Church couldn’t say who and who isn’t going to hell. But I guess that card only gets played when we’re talking about the fate of “good” non-believers…:rolleyes:
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I believe that Pope Francis is giving fair warning.
 
Jon_Mallory said:
I thought the Catholic Church couldn’t say who and who isn’t going to hell. But I guess that card only gets played when we’re talking about the fate of “good” non-believers…:rolleyes:
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The Church can’t say specifically declare how the Lord has judged most people, but it can certainly say what sorts of actions can get you to where you’re going.
 
I think Pope Francis risks over-emphasizing the mission of Jesus as being primarily to relieve material poverty. Pope Francis likes to say that he wants a “poor Church, for the poor” or that the Church’s mission is “to the poor” or that he wants a Church that is “for the poor”.

I think this is a poorly thought out message. Jesus came for everyone, rich and poor alike. The Church should never be “for” any particular economic class of people over another. I know Pope Francis’ heart is with the poor and he is rightly outraged that some people live in luxury while others starve. But it really concerns me when the message is that the Church is “for” some people and not for others. There are many middle-class people in the world. Where do they fit in? They are not poor, but neither are they wealthy; so is the Church not “for” them? Did Jesus not come for them as much as he came for the materially poor?

I also worry that Pope Francis’ message brings the Church into the sphere of class warfare (i.e., the Church is “for the poor” and “against the rich” and who knows where the middle class fits in?).
 
Genesis315 said:
I don’t think he mentioned any specific person, did he? It is true, only God can pass the particular judgment on a soul at their death and that judgment is not revealed until the General Judgment. But the Church can teach what can cause us to be damned and what can cause us to be saved. In fact, that’s the point of the Great Commission.
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I think the point is that despite all his talk of “mercy” Pope Francis is often very condemnatory. He speaks in extremely harsh and terms, in a way that Popes St. John Paul II and Benedict XVI did not. To me, it comes off as very judgmental. And frankly, it comes off as though he really viscerally dislikes certain categories of people (the rich, traditionalists, the “rigid”, etc). He says Christians must be joyful but to me his words sound angry and condemnatory much of the time.

Can you imagine the reaction if Pope Benedict XVI had given a homily in which he stridently warned homosexuals that are damned to hell unless they repent? Well, how is this different, really?
 
DonCampbell said:
I think Pope Francis risks over-emphasizing the mission of Jesus as being primarily to relieve material poverty. Pope Francis likes to say that he wants a “poor Church, for the poor” or that the Church’s mission is “to the poor” or that he wants a Church that is “for the poor”.

I think this is a poorly thought out message. Jesus came for everyone, rich and poor alike. The Church should never be “for” any particular economic class of people over another. I know Pope Francis’ heart is with the poor and he is rightly outraged that some people live in luxury while others starve. But it really concerns me when the message is that the Church is “for” some people and not for others. There are many middle-class people in the world. Where do they fit in? They are not poor, but neither are they wealthy; so is the Church not “for” them? Did Jesus not come for them as much as he came for the materially poor?

I also worry that Pope Francis’ message brings the Church into the sphere of class warfare (i.e., the Church is “for the poor” and “against the rich” and who knows where the middle class fits in?).
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In the global scheme, the “middle class” of the Atlantic nations would fall solidly on the “rich” side of the line.

As someone who is non poor, but lack the means to feed hungry families etc., I am starting to resent being browbeaten continuously about the poor. Is the Church not for everybody? Or did we in the past get the gospel wrong, and our LORD came to found a soup kitchen, and proclaim a redistribution of wealth?

ICXC NIKA
 
DonCampbell said:
I think Pope Francis risks over-emphasizing the mission of Jesus as being primarily to relieve material poverty. Pope Francis likes to say that he wants a “poor Church, for the poor” or that the Church’s mission is “to the poor” or that he wants a Church that is “for the poor”.

I think this is a poorly thought out message. Jesus came for everyone, rich and poor alike. The Church should never be “for” any particular economic class of people over another. I know Pope Francis’ heart is with the poor and he is rightly outraged that some people live in luxury while others starve. But it really concerns me when the message is that the Church is “for” some people and not for others. There are many middle-class people in the world. Where do they fit in? They are not poor, but neither are they wealthy; so is the Church not “for” them? Did Jesus not come for them as much as he came for the materially poor?

I also worry that Pope Francis’ message brings the Church into the sphere of class warfare (i.e., the Church is “for the poor” and “against the rich” and who knows where the middle class fits in?).
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There will always be people who are worse off than us and people better off than us. P
Our call is the corportal and spiritual works of mercy. Where individuals are in the class structure is of little importance. Being Christ for others is key.
 
DonCampbell said:
I think Pope Francis risks over-emphasizing the mission of Jesus as being primarily to relieve material poverty. Pope Francis likes to say that he wants a “poor Church, for the poor” or that the Church’s mission is “to the poor” or that he wants a Church that is “for the poor”.

I think this is a poorly thought out message. Jesus came for everyone, rich and poor alike. The Church should never be “for” any particular economic class of people over another. I know Pope Francis’ heart is with the poor and he is rightly outraged that some people live in luxury while others starve. But it really concerns me when the message is that the Church is “for” some people and not for others. There are many middle-class people in the world. Where do they fit in? They are not poor, but neither are they wealthy; so is the Church not “for” them? Did Jesus not come for them as much as he came for the materially poor?

I also worry that Pope Francis’ message brings the Church into the sphere of class warfare (i.e., the Church is “for the poor” and “against the rich” and who knows where the middle class fits in?).
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Jesus also said that it is easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven…the parable of the rich man who laid up grain for himself and God demanded his soul that night…or the parable of the rich man and Lazarus…Pope Francis is pointing out nothing that Jesus doesn’t expect from those who follow him…he is not taking aim at the rich…he is not “for” anyone…he is proclaiming what Jesus taught…Jesus himself gave us a new commandment…“to love one another even as I have loved you”…that includes all of us…rich and poor…so what is wrong with the Pope in this message mentioning their responsibility…he has also spoken to all of us in his messages about our responsibilities…as he should do…and I pray will always do
 
DonCampbell said:
I think Pope Francis risks over-emphasizing the mission of Jesus as being primarily to relieve material poverty. Pope Francis likes to say that he wants a “poor Church, for the poor” or that the Church’s mission is “to the poor” or that he wants a Church that is “for the poor”.

I think this is a poorly thought out message. Jesus came for everyone, rich and poor alike. The Church should never be “for” any particular economic class of people over another. I know Pope Francis’ heart is with the poor and he is rightly outraged that some people live in luxury while others starve. But it really concerns me when the message is that the Church is “for” some people and not for others. There are many middle-class people in the world. Where do they fit in? They are not poor, but neither are they wealthy; so is the Church not “for” them? Did Jesus not come for them as much as he came for the materially poor?

I also worry that Pope Francis’ message brings the Church into the sphere of class warfare (i.e., the Church is “for the poor” and “against the rich” and who knows where the middle class fits in?).
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hmmm…I think Pope Francis is spot on. When you read the prophetic writings of the OT, the Gospels, and especially the epistle of St. James, you find that God has a special concern for the poor that he does not show the rich. He is their defender. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t care about the rich–but they also have it pretty good already.
 
Did anyone who has a problem with this statement actually read the whole document?

I would highly doubt it, because if you did, there would be no problem.

Here it is.

It really astounds me the lack of faith that some of you have in our Holy Father.
So sad. 😦
 
Pope Francis is not aiming at the rich as a class, but just hammering home their obligation to help those unfortunates whom they are well placed to help.

If he likes the poor it’s not for trendy ideological reasons. It’s about one’s fundamental outlook. We can’t abolish poverty and turn the human race into one vast middle class (the Pope doesn’t say we can and neither does Christ: “The poor are always with you.”). But one thing about being poor, you are not distracted by the social pretensions or the illusory sense of security that money confers, and by your ensuing dependence on it. A poor person can be obsessed about money, sure, but he can also accept he is not going to be materially comfortable or secure in this world, and that is fertile soil for the Faith. When I walk to work each day I meet poor people - black maids, some old, some lame, walking to their employers’ houses - and several of them are the salt of the earth.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
Did anyone who has a problem with this statement actually read the whole document?

I would highly doubt it, because if you did, there would be no problem.

Here it is.

It really astounds me the lack of faith that some of you have in our Holy Father.
So sad. 😦
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Agreed. When you measure the Pope’s words against the tradition of the Church and the Scriptures, there is nothing new or wrong he is saying.
 
I’d like to see the Pope’s actual words regarding this
It’s only through works of mercy that the powerful and wealthy can be embraced and loved by Jesus, who was crucified and rose for them, the pope said.
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The Love of God is unconditional. it does not depend on what our actions are, we do not have to ‘do something’ before God will extend His Love to us.

I would be incredibly surprised if the Pope actually made the statement above.
 
Brendan said:
I’d like to see the Pope’s actual words regarding this

The Love of God is unconditional. it does not depend on what our actions are, we do not have to ‘do something’ before God will extend His Love to us.

I would be incredibly surprised if the Pope actually made the statement above.
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Sadly, it was not quoted in complete context. I published a link up thread, bu these are his actual words-
For all of us, then, the season of Lent in this Jubilee Year is a favourable time to overcome our existential alienation by listening to God’s word and by practising the works of mercy. In the corporal works of mercy we touch the flesh of Christ in our brothers and sisters who need to be fed, clothed, sheltered, visited; in the spiritual works of mercy – counsel, instruction, forgiveness, admonishment and prayer – we touch more directly our own sinfulness. The corporal and spiritual works of mercy must never be separated. By touching the flesh of the crucified Jesus in the suffering, sinners can receive the gift of realizing that they too are poor and in need. By taking this path, the “proud”, the “powerful” and the “wealthy” spoken of in the Magnificat can also be embraced and undeservedly loved by the crucified Lord who died and rose for them. This love alone is the answer to that yearning for infinite happiness and love that we think we can satisfy with the idols of knowledge, power and riches. Yet the danger always remains that by a constant refusal to open the doors of their hearts to Christ who knocks on them in the poor, the proud, rich and powerful will end up condemning themselves and plunging into the eternal abyss of solitude which is Hell.
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