I don’t know what you are getting at.Well, your answer lacks any explanation about the proud and powerful sinners being threatened with fire and brimstone.
For what reason would the fire and brimstone evangelizing be exclusive to this class of sinners?
That seems to be the antithesis of Pope Francis. Fire and brimstone and scaring the pants of people to control them isn’t the dynamic the Church can use now that ordinary people have greater theological awareness and scripture learning themselves. What is needed is that people awaken their own consciences and begin to evaluate their moral conduct in relation to that rather than primarily by measuring their goodness in the eyes of God by how they conform to the disciplines of the Church.I wonder if fire and brimstone is going to make a come-back in the evangelization against sinners after this?
Fire and brimstone is exactly what the pope is preaching to the proud and the powerful.That seems to be the antithesis of Pope Francis. Fire and brimstone and scaring the pants of people to control them isn’t the dynamic the Church can use now that ordinary people have greater theological awareness and scripture learning themselves. What is needed is that people awaken their own consciences and begin to evaluate their moral conduct in relation to that rather than primarily by measuring their goodness in the eyes of God by how they conform to the disciplines of the Church.
People are sensing it is really on the nose to claim to be one thing in theory but in practice to be another… like the Pharisees of today… the fundamentalists. It is objectively inhumane for some people int he world to be starving when the well fed and wasteful part of the world barely lifts a finger to remedy the situation. Our whole attitude is screwed and Pope Francis by pointing out these anomalies in his capacity as the moral leader of the world, deserves to be given a fair hearing.
Only for serious sins. Like driving a diesel or having air conditioning. You know the worst of the worst .I wonder if fire and brimstone is going to make a come-back in the evangelization against sinners after this?
I most definitely see this happening.As to people overreacting to the Pope’s words, do you actually see this happening? I don’t. For those very few with such severe scrupulosity issues, they should seek help from their priest or psychologist. The fact that those few have a specific issue like that should not prevent the Church from speaking in an adult fashion to everyone else.
So you don’t believe that scrupulous people do not exist?I don’t believe for a sec your scenario about scrupulous people selling everything they own and giving it to a homeless person.
So the Church should wrongly instruct a billion Catholics out of concern for a tiny minority with this specific issue? Or does it make more sense for those with that problem to continue to work with their spiritual advisors while the Church teaches correctly to everyone else?I most definitely see this happening.
Otherwise, you ignore the plight of those with scrupulosity issues.
Interesting how you maximize the Pope’s words and minimize the effect on the poor unfortunate souls suffering in scrupulosity.
Also, the blithe dismissal of the issue telling people to “see a spiritual director” when those are horrendously scarce is out of touch with reality, and “see a shrink” is declaring someone to be mentally unfit and harsh on judgment. Very uncharitable.
Why in the world do you think these comments were directed at Mexico?Keep in mind that the Holy Father is here talking to the rich and powerful in Mexico, a group who treat the less fortunate with contempt and disdain. I’ve been to Mexico, and while my experience is limited, I would say he’s right on, The chasm between rich and poor is even greater there than in the US.
You get people in wheelchairs begging in the streets because there’s no other help for them, while the rich treat waiters with rudeness. There;s no safety net except family, and few opportunities which is why many come to the US and send money home.
Mexico is a rich country with many natural resources, but too many people are living in poverty. There’s no reason for it, except for corruption and greed.
I’m hoping the Pope’s visit will awaken consciences and change hearts in Mexico.
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Here is how the Pope said it.I much rather say: “Help the poor.”
Much easier and without the use of fear tactics.
I know it is not the bulk of your post but the pope did not direct these words at Mexico, nor did he say them while in Mexico, they were directed at the whole world as part of a Lenten message. He said them before his trip. It’s a small issue yes but people are srarting to make this congruent with his Mexico trip.I am glad the Holy Father is not mincing words even though some things may be lost in translation. Jesus’s famous words in Matthew 25, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the Good Samaritan, etc all tell us the importance of helping our neighbors and the consequences in the next life if we do not do so in some way. The Pope’s words should apply to more than just Mexico as so many places and people still treat the poor with contempt.
Well, there’s a LOT of scandal and corruption in Latin American governments.Why in the world do you think these comments were directed at Mexico?
It’s not that it doesn’t apply to the rest of the world, but I think its different to own a company in the West that provides numerous high-paying jobs versus getting to the top by making back-room deals with drug cartels.I know it is not the bulk of your post but the pope did not direct these words at Mexico, nor did he say them while in Mexico, they were directed at the whole world as part of a Lenten message. He said them before his trip. It’s a small issue yes but people are srarting to make this congruent with his Mexico trip.
I believe that being obstinately rich is a big problem, as in just storing money that is rusting.And that’s the problem.
The definition of “rich” is a relative term, not an absolute term. In addition the comparison is community (local) based, not global based.
To test where to draw the line:
Does this mean that the homeless beggar on the street in the first world country, because he makes more than the global amount per day, is now condemned to hell because he’s not helping third world people living on a dollar or less a day?
If no, then this is a community (local) standard.
If yes, that’s what the “global standards” judgment is saying.
So where is the line drawn in first world countries?
The middle class person who lives on the basics, but barely is making it?
The upper middle class person who is able to save some money for a rainy day?
Who goes to hell for failing to help the poor in Matthew 25 or the Pope’s statement?
This must be clarified.
Or else the demon of scrupulosity is going to hit hard.
Amen! So did Jesus…I believe that Pope Francis is giving fair warning.
You missed my point.So the Church should wrongly instruct a billion Catholics out of concern for a tiny minority with this specific issue? Or does it make more sense for those with that problem to continue to work with their spiritual advisors while the Church teaches correctly to everyone else?