Pope to the proud and powerful: Help the poor, or you’ll go to hell

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Peebo said:
According to the Gospel, Francis wrote, those who feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, visit the infirm, give counsel, and practice forgiveness do so as though to Christ himself.
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Every single time I make a purchase I am feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and giving shelter to the homeless.
 
SuperLuigi said:
I believe that being obstinately rich is a big problem, as in just storing money that is rusting.
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We have a bad job market where people lose their jobs routinely. They should never save money for emergencies? They should not save in case of disability? People have good reasons to store money.

We have ordinary people being told they are rich, when they’re barely able to pay their bills. Are they going to hell?
All in all, I think people may be surprised how much they can actually help the poor if they really sit down and think about it.
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So where is the line drawn? How much is enough to avoid hell? Dollar amount please.
 
BobCatholic said:
We have a bad job market where people lose their jobs routinely. They should never save money for emergencies? They should not save in case of disability? People have good reasons to store money.

We have ordinary people being told they are rich, when they’re barely able to pay their bills. Are they going to hell?

So where is the line drawn? How much is enough to avoid hell? Dollar amount please.
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Just wondering if anyone knows what amount of money puts you in the top 50% or top 10% of wealth in the world. Where would one draw the line to say, “okay, that person is wealthy”? If someone was in the top 50% of wealth, would they be considered wealthy? What about the top 10%?

All that aside, we also know that charity comes not just from generosity with money, but from generosity with time and talents as well.
 
BobCatholic said:
We have a bad job market where people lose their jobs routinely. They should never save money for emergencies? They should not save in case of disability? People have good reasons to store money.

Well, I personally don’t consider proper monetary management in good faith (like in the job example) to be a grave matter because the Church also teaches about human dignity and just wages.

I’m talking about people who stash their bank accounts and grain bins without sharing and without any pracitical purpose but to have it.

I’ve also pointed out that if people are efficient, they may be surprised with what they can part with without too much pain and suffering.
We have ordinary people being told they are rich, when they’re barely able to pay their bills. Are they going to hell?
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SuperLuigi said:
I’m talking about people who stash their bank accounts and grain bins without sharing and without any pracitical purpose but to have it.
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And how do you determine that vs prudent money management (i.e. saving money for future, etc.)
I’ve also pointed out that if people are efficient, they may be surprised with what they can part with without too much pain and suffering.
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Yes, there are people who can live a minimalist lifestyle. But not everyone can. Nor should everyone be required to (except religious orders)
Don’t know. It would be different for each person, I’m sure. But if one is worried, the solution is too seek good spiritual direction on the matter.
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Assuming it can be found. Due to a shortage of good spiritual directors, this is a problem.
What won’t do anyone any good is to sit around and do nothing wondering.
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That’s why people post on forums asking questions. Nothing wrong with that!
 
BChartowski said:
Just wondering if anyone knows what amount of money puts you in the top 50% or top 10% of wealth in the world. Where would one draw the line to say, “okay, that person is wealthy”? If someone was in the top 50% of wealth, would they be considered wealthy? What about the top 10%?
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Well, we are the 1%, according to this site:

investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-percent-world.asp
According to the Global Rich List, a website that brings awareness to worldwide income disparities, an income of $32,400 a year will allow you to make the cut. Using current exchange rates, that amounts to roughly:
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So if you’re an accountant, a registered nurse or even an elementary school teacher, congratulations. The average wage for any of these careers falls well within the top one percent worldwide.
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So per the judgment of the Pope and many people in this thread, most of USA is going to hell, since he is addressing the rich.

That’s why clarification is needed. Otherwise, scrupulosity will hit many unfortunate souls, and the devil loves that!
 
GEddie said:
In the global scheme, the “middle class” of the Atlantic nations would fall solidly on the “rich” side of the line.

As someone who is non poor, but lack the means to feed hungry families etc., I am starting to resent being browbeaten continuously about the poor. Is the Church not for everybody? Or did we in the past get the gospel wrong, and our LORD came to found a soup kitchen, and proclaim a redistribution of wealth?

ICXC NIKA
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I think you bring up a very good point. What should those of us who belong to the middle class do to help others?

This would make a great thread topic.

In my opinion, Pope Francis is right in reminding those of us with more than others to help our fellow man. It can be with our time, money, food donations and such, but the point is we need to make it a priority.
 
TMC said:
Wow, 90%+ of Catholics don’t actually care about the faith?
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Hoosier Daddy:
Interesting…
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Scrupulosity is when someone really cares about their faith that it becomes fanatical - and irrational, in a particular way: They see sin where there is no sin, and molehills of venial sin become mountains of mortal sin.

I’m talking about those people in my comments about scrupulosity, this is the scope. The scope does not include those who don’t have this issue.

I’m not talking about those who care about their faith and don’t have scrupulosity. Or those who don’t care about their faith.

If both of you wish to bury the discussion of scrupulous individuals by bringing up irrelevant cases outside the scope of what I’m talking about, I’m not going to help you in that area. No matter what I say, you’ll misconstrue what I’m talking about.

I’m speaking up for the scrupulous, because I actually understand where they come from. I’m doing this out of charity and empathy.

Remember, we in the USA are the top 1% in the world in terms of income. This is an indisputable fact. Clarity is needed here in what the Pope is talking about. Otherwise, he’s basically condemning the entire USA (if not the entire first world) to hell. It pretty much signals to ordinary people who work for a living in the USA/first world to give away everything in a desperate bid to avoid hell.

Of course, that point must be avoided. It must be buried. We can’t have an adult discussion about this, so let’s bring in the out of scope cases, and minimize the effects. We must dehumanize and say bad things who are scrupulous and judge them harshly.

Bury. Bury. Bury.

This is charity? I don’t think so.

Or maybe I should sell shovels?
 
BobCatholic said:
Scrupulosity is when someone really cares about their faith that it becomes fanatical - and irrational, in a particular way: They see sin where there is no sin, and molehills of venial sin become mountains of mortal sin.

I’m talking about those people in my comments about scrupulosity, this is the scope. The scope does not include those who don’t have this issue.

I’m not talking about those who care about their faith and don’t have scrupulosity. Or those who don’t care about their faith.

If both of you wish to bury the discussion of scrupulous individuals by bringing up irrelevant cases outside the scope of what I’m talking about, I’m not going to help you in that area. No matter what I say, you’ll misconstrue what I’m talking about.

I’m speaking up for the scrupulous, because I actually understand where they come from. I’m doing this out of charity and empathy.

Remember, we in the USA are the top 1% in the world in terms of income. This is an indisputable fact. Clarity is needed here in what the Pope is talking about. Otherwise, he’s basically condemning the entire USA (if not the entire first world) to hell. It pretty much signals to ordinary people who work for a living in the USA/first world to give away everything in a desperate bid to avoid hell.

Of course, that point must be avoided. It must be buried. We can’t have an adult discussion about this, so let’s bring in the out of scope cases, and minimize the effects. We must dehumanize and say bad things who are scrupulous and judge them harshly.

Bury. Bury. Bury.

This is charity? I don’t think so.

Or maybe I should sell shovels?
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Scrupulosity is a psychological condition requiring healing not accommodating. A priest once used the example of his scrupulosity in a homily. He said that as a seminarian he was so wracked with fear and guilt when he came to confession that his confessor forbade him from examining his conscience for all but 15 minutes before coming to confession. For trainee Jesuits the general rule is conscience examination regularly throughout the day as part of the Ignatian spiritual way. It is quite an intense spirituality but profoundly effective. Do you think that the Jesuits should desist from promoting this type of intense self examination for the sake of the scrupulous?.
 
BobCatholic said:
Scrupulosity is when someone really cares about their faith that it becomes fanatical - and irrational, in a particular way: They see sin where there is no sin, and molehills of venial sin become mountains of mortal sin.

I’m talking about those people in my comments about scrupulosity, this is the scope. The scope does not include those who don’t have this issue.

I’m not talking about those who care about their faith and don’t have scrupulosity. Or those who don’t care about their faith.

If both of you wish to bury the discussion of scrupulous individuals by bringing up irrelevant cases outside the scope of what I’m talking about, I’m not going to help you in that area. No matter what I say, you’ll misconstrue what I’m talking about.

I’m speaking up for the scrupulous, because I actually understand where they come from. I’m doing this out of charity and empathy.

Remember, we in the USA are the top 1% in the world in terms of income. This is an indisputable fact. Clarity is needed here in what the Pope is talking about. Otherwise, he’s basically condemning the entire USA (if not the entire first world) to hell. It pretty much signals to ordinary people who work for a living in the USA/first world to give away everything in a desperate bid to avoid hell.

Of course, that point must be avoided. It must be buried. We can’t have an adult discussion about this, so let’s bring in the out of scope cases, and minimize the effects. We must dehumanize and say bad things who are scrupulous and judge them harshly.

Bury. Bury. Bury.

This is charity? I don’t think so.

Or maybe I should sell shovels?
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I did not follow your post, so I will say this. The point is that this will not cause scrupulocity anymore than the pope saying ANYTHING is a sin.
 
Peebo said:
cruxnow.com/church/2016/01/26/pope-to-the-proud-and-powerful-help-the-poor-or-youll-go-to-hell/

Bet this will ruffle a few feathers…God bless Pope Francis
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It’s a good message. I wish he were this clear about contraception, like the other day when he–from my perception-- spoke in such a way that the media can easily claim that the Pope is open using contraceptives to stop the spread of Zika, and for some reason brought up the use of contradeptives in the case of rape, which is a completely different issue from consensual sex.
 
Jon_Mallory said:
hmmm…I think Pope Francis is spot on. When you read the prophetic writings of the OT, the Gospels, and especially the epistle of St. James, you find that God has a special concern for the poor that he does not show the rich. He is their defender. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t care about the rich–but they also have it pretty good already.
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I totally agree with you.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I did not follow your post, so I will say this. The point is that this will not cause scrupulocity anymore than the pope saying ANYTHING is a sin.
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You are right. A comment alone certainly won’t cause scrupulosity! I do am examination of conscience twice a day - noon and bedtime. I find it very helpful.
 
patricius79 said:
It’s a good message. I wish he were this clear about contraception, like the other day when he–from my perception-- spoke in such a way that the media can easily claim that the Pope is open using contraceptives to stop the spread of Zika, and for some reason brought up the use of contradeptives in the case of rape, which is a completely different issue from consensual sex.
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It is not the media “claiming,” that is what the Pope said about contraceptives.
 
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